Neutral switch question for those that have done AT to MT swap

[Legacy777]

I know this isn't exactly an svx....but the technical aspect of the swap is the same, and I've heard some of you guys have done this swap and took care of all the electrical issues.

I'm finishing up all the mechanical stuff on my swap, and soon coming to the electrical part. From all the info I can see in the FSM, the neutral switch on the MT's is not linked to the ignition system. The only spot I can see it going to is the ECU. There is a pin on the ECU for it. That's it.

Is that the only computer/input there is for this switch?

I'm not exactly sure what to wire it to, mainly because I'm not sure which bundles of wires go where and tie into what. I've got both harnesses MT & AT, so I'll just make a plug & play harness for the neutral switch & reverse lights, but I may have to wait until I get the tranny in, and can get the car off jack stands and do some testing/probing.

BTW....check out the little page/journal I made for latest info & pics on the AWD & 5mt swap
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru/trannyswap.html

Josh

[huck369]

Josh,
Read through the link to my 5-Speed write up in my sig, it goes over what you need to do with the neutral switch issue to allow your cruise to work, and only let you start the car, when you press in the clutch pedal...
Good seeing you over here...

Or call me if you have any more questions....my cell is 606-305-5045, and home is 606-677-0994

[Legacy777]

Thanks Huck,

appreciate the feedback. I'm excited to get this done. Some of the people I've told about swapping in a 5spd and converting to awd say I'm pretty crazy.....hahaha....yeah, but it's a nice challenge. The AWD portion really wasn't too bad.

The biggest pains so far were getting the huge auto tranny out, (bent one of the engine studs, stole one from the donor car), and putting in the pedal system. I had to make a template to cut out a hole on the firewall, and getting the pedals in there was a contorsionists nightmare.

Josh

[Legacy777]

No go on the document. Is it still there?

If you have it saved on your local computer, feel free to email it to me jlegacy@surrealmirage.com

I can host that document if you'd like?

[huck369]

http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/huck369/19802.doc

Try that, It's wrote in Word, so if you don't have it, let me know and I'll paste it into an e-mail for you.

[Earthworm]

I have an HTML version of Huck's writeup on my web site:

http://svx-iw.com/
Click Troubleshooting-->Transmission-->Manual Transmission Conversion

[Legacy777]

Thanks guys, I'll take a look at the write up

[Legacy777]

Quick question huck?

So you're not using the neutral safety switch at all? Do you happen to have an ECU I/O page for the SVX?

On the legacy, there is an input for the neutral safety switch for MT or the N inhibitor switch for AT. The only thing I can think that it does is modify a/f maps when the car is in neutral.

Also, I noticed something on your writeup about the torque control or something like that. Is that for the variable assist power steering....or something else?

Thanks

josh

[huck369]

Sorry Josh,
I haven't been on-line since Friday...

No, I don't use the NSS at all, completely did away with it by wiring in the clutch position switch to fool the ECU into thinking it was in nuetral when the clutch is depressed, so it thinks it's in drive when the clutch is released.


And the "Torque Control" was something someone brought up early this year, it retards the timing on the 4EAT cars a little between shifts, and by sending a false signal to it, it leaves the timing advanced the same as when the auto is in a gear....I haven't actually done this to my car, but a few did, and thought it helped....I'm happy with the way mine runs now, so I let it...might try it sometime to see if I feel any differance.

Been running mine for 3 years now, with no problems....

Hope you get your's lined out soon...

[Legacy777]

Hmm.....never heard of that torque control thing for the legacies.

I suppose I should search, but I'd like to compare the ECU pinouts from the legacy to the SVX, and see what corresponds.

I know our ECU's have a pin for the neutral switch. Why it's there, and what it does, I'm not sure. Probably affects timing and/or idle when you're in neutral.

The other thing is our ECU's have an AT/MT identifier pin that tells the ECU whether it should control things like if there's a MT or AT. So apparently the code in the ECU can do both....or so I would think. It just needs to know which to use.

For you guys, I would assume you don't have a pin like this.

I'll get it figured out. I still have to put the trans in, front struts, bleed the brakes & clutch. Then I'll start on the electrical.

[Legacy777]

Well it's done...finished everything up yesterday.

Check out the page for details
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru/trannyswap.html

Regarding the neutral switch. I did wire it up to the ECU, because the ECU does alter ignition timing and such when in neutral. But I wired everything else up and works well, even the cruise. I swapped to the MT cruise relay, and the cruise didn't work. I swapped cruise computers, because they are specific, and cruise worked. I think if I hadn't of switched relays, cruise would have worked. The AT relay was a normally closed relay, and the MT was normally open, so the computers apparently are specific for the type of drivetrain.

Josh

[mbtoloczko]

I was the guy who first experimented with disabling the torque control feature on the ECU. Torque control is supposed to be disabled when the pin is set to +5 V, and since the pin is open, I thought the torque control was enabled. Turns out I was wrong. If the pin is open, the circuitry in the ECU automatically holds the pin at +5 V, and the torque control is disabled by default if the pin is left ungrounded. So the torque control pin on the ECU can be left alone.

The neutral pin on the ECU is another story. I also experimented with grounding/opening this pin while driving the car. I could detect no difference in performance whether or not the pin was grounded. No difference in power, no difference in rev limiter. Grounding the neutral pin does, however, significantly stablize the idle. I have it permanently grounded rather than grounding it via the NSS.

[huck369]

Congrats Josh...
Glad you've got her back on the road:)

[Legacy777]

Thanks guys :)

Glad to get it done and running again......hmm what do I do next ;)

[huck369]

Originally posted by Legacy777
Thanks guys :)

Glad to get it done and running again......hmm what do I do next ;)



mmmmmmm.....maybe drop in a 3.0 Flat-6:eek: .....

[Legacy777]

I'm more of a turbo guy actually. I'd like to do an ej22t build up....but I don't think that will happen for a little while...

[Legacy777]

I figured I'd bump this and put my write-up link in the thread. The procedure will not be entirely the same, but I've got a lot of good pics, and electrical info in the write-up.

www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/swap

josh

[huck369]

Josh,
That's a very good in depth write up....
The worst part about doing a SVX, is that there are no Direct fit parts for the swap (Pedals, driveshaft, crossmember, ect)....having parts that will bolt right in really makes a difference.

[Legacy777]

Yeah,

everything was bolt up except the hydraulic clutch pedal assembly. I had to drill holes in the firewall for everything to line up properly. That project took nearly the entire day.