Redline Water Wetter....Is this for real???

[pearlm30]

Anyone know this product? It claims it will lower the temp in the cooling system. The hot summer is on the way and it will be great if this product works.

[Hocrest]

Yeah it works.

We use it in the racer. We used to have issues with it running slightly warm, we could definitely see a difference on the gauge after adding this stuff. I don't know if I'd add it if the car was staying at a normal operating temperature, but if it's running warm then do it.

[ItsPeteReally]

It's not a 'magic bullet'.

If you have a defective cooling system - furred up, clogged up, eroded pump impeller, etc. etc. it won't fix the problem.

This guy seems to know what he's talking about http://e30m3performance.com/myths/more_myths1/Water_Wetter/water_wetter.htm

[JaySVX]

I have a long drive in august, from pennsylvania to texas. I think i may get this to help keep the temp down. It's supposed to be hot this summer, especially in texas. I didnt' know about it but i'll defidently look into it now. Thanks.

[Trevor]

I have a long drive in august, from pennsylvania to texas. I think i may get this to help keep the temp down. It's supposed to be hot this summer, especially in texas. I didnt' know about it but i'll defidently look into it now. Thanks.

The OEM thermostat fixes/maintains the operating temperature. The principal involved relates solely to improving the transfer of heat from the coolant to the radiator element.

If the the radiator is not doing its job for some reason, (i.e. something is faulty or it is inadequate), the thermostat OK and is fully open, but the engine is operating at an excessive temperature, it is possible that the product could reduce the operating temperature. Otherwise it will have no function, other than providing additional, but very meagre, extra temperature head room.

[ItsPeteReally]

I've now read Redline's technical document http://www.redlineoil.com/whitePaper/17.pdf and things become much clearer - perhaps I should have done so before commenting ;) .

Basically, the large temperature reductions claimed are due to running the cooling system on pure water and water wetter. This is not too surprising as pure water has a higher thermal capacity than a water/antifreeze mix.

I'd recommend anybody to read this document before trying it.

[Phil Hill]

Guys

I use this product in my "hot" Mini's............ and put some in the SVX just because I had some.

The radiator on a Mini (original not BMW) is marginal at the best of times, and when you double the horsepower the cooling requirement correspondingly increases......... I use a more modern, better design of radiator and I use demin water with "Water Wetter".

This group of products are described as "surface tension modifiers", Water is surprisingly not very good at absorbing heat from engine blocks nor releasing it to the radiator. My chemistry and thermodynamics are not up to explaining exactly the phenomina behind this, something to do with localised bubbling/boiling of the water at the interface between the water and the metal........... Adding a glycol antifreeze/lubricant only makes this situation worse as glycol is about 5 times worse at absorbing heat than water..........

The "Water Wetter" is supposed to reduce the surface tension of the water slightly, which is supposed to allow better heat transfer (smaller bubbles I guess !!) both from the block to the water and water to the radiator.

What I can tell you is my experience is similar to Holcrest, when used on both my Mini's and the SVX the temperture gauge regesters a maintained lower temperature with no other modificiations to the cooling system, so it does appear to do something positive.

However as already mentioned it isn't a magic bullet. If the existing system is insufficient either by design, operating outside the original designed capacity, or through poor maintenance/neglect/wear then this product won't solve your problem.

Phil.


Edited to add : I've just read Pete's post (damn I should type faster !!) and the links off this and the earlier post to be pleasently surprised that I got things about right !!

[svxistentialist]

Thanks for all the information guys.

I've been looking for this product locally, with no success up to now. I think my engine will be making more heat with the supercharger, and every little helps.

I must read the Redline technical sheet thoroughly. So far as I understand this type of product is called a non-ionic surfactant, which agrees with Phil's definition.

Changing [reducing] the surface tension of the water should allow the liquid to shear from the surface of the cooling passages. Normally, the pumped coolant fluid will tend to replace the liquid in the centre of the passages more than that which touches the metal. Surface tension causes some of the fluid to "cling" to the metal [or hose] surface. This clinging liquid will be getting heated more [or cooled less, if you want to look at it that way:rolleyes: ], and will not get physically transported to the radiator for heat exchange purposes. This in turn can cause this localised boiling effect.

I reckon this product is a Good Thing, and I'm getting some for my motor.

BTW, obversely, it will also help your coolant to heat up faster on cold days, because the benefit it gives is one of better heat transfer. It should mean your heater will be warmer quicker in the winter.

Joe:)

[ItsPeteReally]

I think the idea of the surfactant is to reduce the surface tension, and consequently the water vapor bubble size when the coolant boils (does anybody remember 2T/r from their school physics lessons?).

If you just want the surfactant effect, perhaps a few drops of detergent would work equally as well :eek:

[svxistentialist]

I think the idea of the surfactant is to reduce the surface tension, and consequently the water vapor bubble size when the coolant boils (does anybody remember 2T/r from their school physics lessons?).

If you just want the surfactant effect, perhaps a few drops of detergent would work equally as well :eek:

:eek: :eek:

I would say so Pete.

But the foaming would be counter-productive for heat dissipation maybe?

:rolleyes: :D

[Phil Hill]

Guys (well UK/Ireland anyway !!)

The 14 fl-oz bottle will treat a shed-load of coolant even at the "recommended" application levels. I have the "diesel formulation" as my supplier said it was more suitable for Mini A-series engines, although I suspect this was probably because he only had the diesel version in stock............ (and I suspect the only change between formulations is that the petrol version is red and the diesel version is green.......).

To wit : I have about half a bottle left. If we can figure out how to get the minute amount required safely shipped to your destination then I will happily send some to you, until my bottle is empty anyway !!

Phil.

[pearlm30]

Thanks with all the great info!!!. My cooling system is in good shape. I just wanted to do something to improve the cooling during the upcoming hot hot summer, kind of like the preventive maintenance:D
Its about $10 at autozone and since there is no reported problems, I decide to try it and will report back.
Thanks again!

[Trevor]

Phil, I appreciate and agree with all you say regarding advantages when running a an engine above its ratings. I too have enjoyed racing a modified Mini Cooper. :D

However in affect what has now being generally indicated here, is that the original system as designed and fitted to the SVX is inadequate and faulty. Modern engines at designed to operate at a preset temperature, above normal boiling point and the cooling fluid is held under pressure so that this is achieved.

The system has been designed with normal coolant as has been specified as the bench mark. Why doubt the manufactures technical ability and lower the deigned operating temperature, in order to advantage the supplier of another cunningly advertised product? :confused:

[svxistentialist]

Phil, I appreciate and agree with all you say regarding advantages when running a an engine above its ratings. I too have enjoyed racing a modified Mini Cooper. :D

However in affect what has now being generally indicated here, is that the original system as designed and fitted to the SVX is inadequate and faulty. Modern engines at designed to operate at a preset temperature, above normal boiling point and the cooling fluid is held under pressure so that this is achieved.

The system has been designed with normal coolant as has been specified as the bench mark. Why doubt the manufactures technical ability and lower the deigned operating temperature, in order to advantage the supplier of another cunningly advertised product? :confused:

It is a good point you make Trevor, and well thought through as is your usual wont.

In my own case, my engine is going to be making a lot more heat than the standard system, so I am actually looking for a small edge or advantage, as it were.

There is one point I would make in favour of using the product say in unfavourable circumstances, like a long drive through hot territory in the middle of summer. We all know the SVX engine makes a lot of heat. On older cars the electrical items under the bonnet such as the maf sensor tend to fail later in life from the high underbonnet temperatures. So also does the wiring get brittle up around the intake. Localised heat spots or heating around the cylinder cores that causes detonation or "pinking" as we call it here, this will never be heard by the driver because the SVX has a closed loop system using the two knock sensors to detect this. It will be detected, and the ECU will retard the ignition to correct it, before the human ear notices.

In these circumstances the engine will be running under retardation, and will not give its best power.

If the Water Wetter product does what Redline says it does, and reduces or eliminates these hot spots, then the car would actually run better without the ECU retarding the power.

It depends how sceptical you want to be about their claims, I suppose.:rolleyes:

Joe:)

[Trevor]

Localised heat spots or heating around the cylinder cores that causes detonation or "pinking" as we call it here, this will never be heard by the driver because the SVX has a closed loop system using the two knock sensors to detect this. It will be detected, and the ECU will retard the ignition to correct it, before the human ear notices.

It is rather far fetched to suggest that hot spots of this nature will cause detonation. :confused: A hot spot sufficient to prematurely ignite the fuel mixture is required, as is associated with problems within the combustion chamber.

[Phil Hill]

Phil, I appreciate and agree with all you say regarding advantages when running a an engine above its ratings. I too have enjoyed racing a modified Mini Cooper. :D

However in affect what has now being generally indicated here, is that the original system as designed and fitted to the SVX is inadequate and faulty. Modern engines at designed to operate at a preset temperature, above normal boiling point and the cooling fluid is held under pressure so that this is achieved.

The system has been designed with normal coolant as has been specified as the bench mark. Why doubt the manufactures technical ability and lower the deigned operating temperature, in order to advantage the supplier of another cunningly advertised product? :confused:

Hi Trevor

In general I agree with your sentiment. It does makes me smile when viewing the general "modified" or "custom" car scene in UK/Europe/US/Asia as a lot of the so-called "modifications" are bunk and have no worth what-so-ever. My usual quote is along the lines of: "The car manufacturers spend millions of dollar/Euros/Yen designing a car, with "proper" designers, stylists and engineers developing the product to the point where they are satisfied that it will perform sufficiently well for their intended market and useage, and release it for sale. Then some "berk" (insert insult of choice here) with a GCE in woodwork thinks he can improve on it by slapping on a couple of slabs of GRP, some body filler, and a "cold air intake kit" made of parts from the local DIY store." Most of these "creations" look like their owners ram-raided a hobby shop and got lots of parts from different model aircraft kits stuck on at random and painted in the same fashion..........

Not that I have anything against home-made performance parts, I indulge in this myself on occasion, but the "one size fits all" multi-brand no thought required modifications like "bung a K&N on it" or "that'd look great with some Lexus lights on it" do get my goat. But lets not forget no-matter how ill advised or naive these guys are they are the car enthusiasts of the future, and may well be "into" SVX's in a couple of years time.........

I don't think anyone actually inferred that the cooling system fitted to the SVX was inadequate. From my experience the cooling system of the SVX seems perfectly adequate for it's purpose, maintaining operating normal temperature pretty well in the UK climate under all driving conditions. I think that NZ has a similar climate to UK, so I would expect the system to perform the same for you as I, but as for hotter climes I cannot say.

I'm not sure exactly what the 'stat temperature for SVX is, or what the exact temperature at mid-scale on the temp gauge is, but I guess the stat is about 88 deg C and mid scale about 95 deg C. I also guess that in most situations actual indicated operating temp is somewhere between 90 and 100 deg C. In this case the stat will be wide open and not controlling the operating temp, but the capacity in the cooling system as a whole will. More load more heat, more airflow more cooling, but basically just bobbling about between 90 and 100 deg C.

All I can practically report from my experience of the SVX is that under normal use, both town and highway the temp gauge needle was, to me, marginally but perceptively lower after adding the product than before without doing anything else to the system. If in reality this is product lowered the actual temp by more than 5 deg C I'd be sceptical, but if it makes someone happy to have 5 deg more margin than they did for such a low cost, with no (apparent) adverse effects.........

In the case of this particular product I can report that it did "do something" in my practical experience, which is more than can be said for a lot of "additives" products out there. I don't have any experimental results to back this up, merely observations in both road and track use in the mini and road and highway use for the SVX.

Would I recommend this product ?? Yes, if used as described and for the product's intended purpose. Will it cure someones overheating problem ?? Not a chance.

Phil.

[Trevor]

Hi Phil,

I agree entirely with what you say, particularly as all is so well set out, but you have missed a point and I say again. ;)

"The system has been designed with normal coolant as has been specified as the bench mark. Why doubt the manufactures technical ability and lower the deigned operating temperature, in order to advantage the supplier of another cunningly advertised product? :confused: "

It is a point that lowering the operating temperature will reduce the engines efficiency. The temperature as designed surely was no mistake. We are probably talking about that which does not matter, but then, does it? :confused: :)

Special regards, Trevor. *<)