timing belt change question

[Frogman75]

Have received much needed info from you svx gurus about parts and installation of new timing belt.... my mechanic says kits don't include timing belt tensioner- which seems correct- which he says wears out and probably needs to be replaced as well-- pretty expensive little item...any thoughts?? thanks...MK

[SoCal LS-L]

Its a hydraulic unit..... mine was just fine and I reused it. When you compress it for reinstallation, just check for any leakage of the fluid and that the shaft slides in smoothly.

[dromano]

In this manual there is a minimum spec listed for the tensioner,

http://serial.cc/

[SoCal LS-L]

In this manual there is a minimum spec listed for the tensioner,

http://serial.cc/

To save you a lot of skimming, heres what the manual states:

"2) Inspect tension adjuster for leaking oil seals and worn
rod ends. Slight traces of oil at rod oil seal do not indicate
problem. Ensure tension adjuster rod does not move with less than 33-
110 lbs. (15-50 kg) of force applied.

3) Replace tension adjuster if rod moves. Measure tension
adjuster rods extension beyond adjuster body. Distance should be .606-
.646" (15.40-16.40 mm). Replace tension adjuster if distance is not
correct. Inspect idler pulleys and tensioners for smooth rotation.
Replace components if noise or excessive play is noted."

As you can see, the service limit for applied force to compress is extremely wide ranging, basically look to see if theres a lot of oil pouring out of it, and if it doesnt compress by merely squeezing it with your hand, its ok. Also make sure the rod doesnt wiggle.

If you dont have it already, the link to download the manual is in my signature, as apparently you cant download the one in the "serial.cc" link. Its much easier to find what you seek when you have the downloaded version as the individual .pdf's are labeled.

[yt]

in my experiences, I have yet to see an SVX timing belt tensioner go bad... ever

Tom

[trophy956]

hi
these tensioner were better then there replacment ,if its not bad dont replace it

[SoCal LS-L]

Just a side note, when you compress it, do it slowly, if you force it too fast you risk bending the rod.

Also, when you insert the holding pin/nail/whatever.... make sure you position it with the head of the pin/nail facing outwards in relation to the position of the tensioner after install, or you wont be able to pull it out to release the rod after the pulley and belt are re-installed, and you will have to redo it. This isn't from experience or anything :rolleyes::D

[smokin_dodge]

i have the timing cover off of my motor right now and am looking at the idler pulley's. i have a 2.2 sitting next to it and it appears as if the pulley's would fit. can i use the pulley's off of the 2.2 and put them on the 3.3??

if not where can i find them. the timing belt was replaced a year ago and looks great, but the idlers look like they have seen better days.

[SoCal LS-L]

I believe the 3.3L belt and pulleys are wider, the 2.2L pulleys are too narrow to use. You can get them from EBay in a kit, but it also includes the timing belt. Depending on how bad they are, you might have luck finding a better set from another member here in the parts for sale section.

[smokin_dodge]

you wouldnt happen to know the part numbers for the idlers would you? its rather hard to find consistent part numbers for these cars on different sites

[Hocrest]

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=svx+timing+belt&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

[smokin_dodge]

hmm. something about that looks to good to be true.

ive been looking online from a number of recommended sources and the total bill is coming out to be much more than what their advertised price is. ive been quoted nearly $100 just for the timing belt.

i appreciate the help but im not buying from that company until i can do some more research on them.


ill give you a little info on what im doing. a friend has a 1986 westfalia vanagon, weekender, that had a bad #1 cylinder in the stock 2.1L motor. we were planning on doing a ztec conversion or a 2.2L as they are more common, but he got a deal on the SVX. it has 87,000 miles on it and a new water pump and timing belt. so im going to keep the timing belt and just replace the idlers. possibly thinking about replacing the tensioner but i wont know until i get the timing belt off

im trying to get all these parts accounted for before i order all of what i need and save on shipping.

[SoCal LS-L]

hmm. something about that looks to good to be true.

ive been looking online from a number of recommended sources and the total bill is coming out to be much more than what their advertised price is. ive been quoted nearly $100 just for the timing belt.

i appreciate the help but im not buying from that company until i can do some more research on them.


ill give you a little info on what im doing. a friend has a 1986 westfalia vanagon, weekender, that had a bad #1 cylinder in the stock 2.1L motor. we were planning on doing a ztec conversion or a 2.2L as they are more common, but he got a deal on the SVX. it has 87,000 miles on it and a new water pump and timing belt. so im going to keep the timing belt and just replace the idlers. possibly thinking about replacing the tensioner but i wont know until i get the timing belt off

im trying to get all these parts accounted for before i order all of what i need and save on shipping.

I remember quite a few members here mentioning they have used the timing belt/pulley set bought from EBay. More pricey doesnt always mean better, but if you have the funds to blow, then order them all from the dealership. I will be hard to find the idlers by themselves without the belt, unless you want to shell out for them individually.

[davew833]

Nobody's going to express mild dismay that smokin_dodge and his buddy are parting out an 87k mile SVX to repower a Vanagon? He's the second person that's doing (or has already done) a Vanagon to join SVXWN this week. (The other guy's post is here: http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=51980)

Everyone's welcome here, I'm sure, but I can't help shedding a wee tear... I guess we could encourage them to disassemble the SVX carefully so that it might be put back on the road again in the future.

[smokin_dodge]

well to give you some re-assurance, my degree is in agricultural mechanics, amd this is my senior project so to say. as far as my "buddy" its my professor who has helped with a number of subaru conversions.

as far as getting the motor running it wont be a problem at all, my main concern is the reversed coolant manifold to re-route the coolant lines for the front mounted radiator.

[SVXMAN2001]

smokin_dodge, what do you plan to do with the svx carcass once you've removed its soul?

[smokin_dodge]

the guy who owns the van that im working on bought the motor from a guy in san antonio texas. the guy even pulled the motor for him, if i remember correctly cost around $750 for motor and wiring harness.

i think they were planning on parting out the rest of the car but i dont know any more than that.

[kwren]

hmm. something about that looks to good to be true.

ive been looking online from a number of recommended sources and the total bill is coming out to be much more than what their advertised price is. ive been quoted nearly $100 just for the timing belt.

i appreciate the help but im not buying from that company until i can do some more research on them.


If you are talking about the ebay company in eastern Washington state, many of have already done the research for you.

Great products and good prices. Good people!

Keith:cool:

[yt]

If you are talking about the ebay company in eastern Washington state, many of have already done the research for you.

Great products and good prices. Good people!

Keith:cool:

I use them all the time... Just do not user the water pump... Have had issues on several seperate occaisons

Tom

[dromano]

Rockauto has great pricing on timing belts.

[smokin_dodge]

well i finally finished my research on the idlers. I have decided to test them indiviually for play when i pull the timing belt. i talked to a tech at pelham auto today and got the word on the difference between 2.2 and 3.3 idlers. they are different, but no one seems to know why.

i also got a quote from pelham auto, whom i have been recommended to by multiple svx vanagon guys who swear by them. in total for all idlers it comes to $850 for koyo aftermarket parts. something about the ebay parts doesnt add up in my head. the parts from pelham to the best of my knowledge are japanese and im guessing the ebay parts are chinese and thus the huge cost difference.

i dunno bout yall but chinese parts on a jap motor just doesnt make sense.....



i also did some looking up about the ebay company pci. they say on their website they have been around since 1921, and i dunno bout you but im pretty sure there werent too many exotic european cars on the pacific coast in the 20's, if they have been around for so long why do they use a hotmail account?? and when i tried to get in contact with them the voice mailboxes were full, and im guessing either he never checks it or hasnt ever set it up. im not trying to talk bad or flame the company or anyone who has used them, it just seems a little shady to me.

as far as cheaper isnt always better i completely agree, but in my line of work you get exactly what you pay for. for example i have a huskvarna 266 chainsaw with a 24" bar. i jumped a chain and needed a new bar so i went to tractor supply and got a bar (non-oregon because the grade of oregon parts is end-user/chinese that they have) supposedly commercial grade, spent $100 on it and the chain. it lasted no more than an hour afterwhich i returned it and went to the saw shop and forked out $240 for a pro-comp bar and chain.

another example would be harbor freight. yes they have some good tools, but most of them are horrible chinese knock-offs that fail within 5 minutes. i hear countless stories of guys buying 180 tig welders for maybe a few hundred and never get the thing to work. the tig in our shop, miller syncwave 180, i believe cost almost 2K when we bought it. weve never had a problem with it. go blue!

i guess ive just had too many bad experiences with cheap stuff, id just rather spend the money and get high-quality parts. save myself some headache farther down the road.

[yt]

They are wider to make up for the wider belt... Someone already said this:confused:

this is not magic or hard... Its a timing belt

Tom

[smokin_dodge]

well i took a set of dial calipers to them when i was talking to the guy today at pelham. the 2.2 smooth idlers and 3.3 smoother idlers have the exact same OD, the bearings have the same ID and OD - yet they are different parts....

[Hocrest]

They are wider to make up for the wider belt... Someone already said this:confused:

this is not magic or hard... Its a timing belt

Tom

well i took a set of dial calipers to them when i was talking to the guy today at pelham. the 2.2 smooth idlers and 3.3 smoother idlers have the exact same OD, the bearings have the same ID and OD - yet they are different parts....

Maybe if I put it in caps??
THE BELT IS WIDER, SO THE PULLEY HAS TO BE WIDER...

The OD is the same, the bolt is the same, I'm using a 3.3 pulley on my 2.2. It wouldn't work If i wanted to use the covers.

[kwren]

well i finally finished my research on the idlers. I have decided to test them indiviually for play when i pull the timing belt. i talked to a tech at pelham auto today and got the word on the difference between 2.2 and 3.3 idlers. they are different, but no one seems to know why.

i also got a quote from pelham auto, whom i have been recommended to by multiple svx vanagon guys who swear by them. in total for all idlers it comes to $850 for koyo aftermarket parts. something about the ebay parts doesnt add up in my head. the parts from pelham to the best of my knowledge are japanese and im guessing the ebay parts are chinese and thus the huge cost difference.

i dunno bout yall but chinese parts on a jap motor just doesnt make sense.....



i also did some looking up about the ebay company pci. they say on their website they have been around since 1921, and i dunno bout you but im pretty sure there werent too many exotic european cars on the pacific coast in the 20's, if they have been around for so long why do they use a hotmail account?? and when i tried to get in contact with them the voice mailboxes were full, and im guessing either he never checks it or hasnt ever set it up. im not trying to talk bad or flame the company or anyone who has used them, it just seems a little shady to me.

as far as cheaper isnt always better i completely agree, but in my line of work you get exactly what you pay for. for example i have a huskvarna 266 chainsaw with a 24" bar. i jumped a chain and needed a new bar so i went to tractor supply and got a bar (non-oregon because the grade of oregon parts is end-user/chinese that they have) supposedly commercial grade, spent $100 on it and the chain. it lasted no more than an hour afterwhich i returned it and went to the saw shop and forked out $240 for a pro-comp bar and chain.

another example would be harbor freight. yes they have some good tools, but most of them are horrible chinese knock-offs that fail within 5 minutes. i hear countless stories of guys buying 180 tig welders for maybe a few hundred and never get the thing to work. the tig in our shop, miller syncwave 180, i believe cost almost 2K when we bought it. weve never had a problem with it. go blue!

i guess ive just had too many bad experiences with cheap stuff, id just rather spend the money and get high-quality parts. save myself some headache farther down the road.

To each his own...

[smokin_dodge]

Maybe if I put it in caps??
THE BELT IS WIDER, SO THE PULLEY HAS TO BE WIDER...

The OD is the same, the bolt is the same, I'm using a 3.3 pulley on my 2.2. It wouldn't work If i wanted to use the covers.

i talked to the head mechanic at 1st Subaru and he says they are the same. he is running (1) 2.2 idler on his 3.3

hocrest, are you trying to tell me you run your motor without a timing belt cover?? i dunno bout you but that has to be one of the dumbest things ive ever heard of. all it takes is for something to hit that belt and your motor is toast.

i can see it now, your driving along at about 65 maybe 2500rpm when you hit a rock, your belt sheers, and then your pistons destroy your valves and valve train and your looking at a brand new motor.

[SoCal LS-L]

i dunno bout you but that has to be one of the dumbest things ive ever heard of. all it takes is for something to hit that belt and your motor is toast.

i can see it now, your driving along at about 65 maybe 2500rpm when you hit a rock, your belt sheers, and then your pistons destroy your valves and valve train and your looking at a brand new motor.

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz282/RJ_5TYLE5/facepalm.jpg

The 3.3H6 is a non-interference motor.......

Why come here and ask questions if you're going to just tell people they're wrong? Great way to make friends!

[yt]

i talked to the head mechanic at 1st Subaru and he says they are the same. he is running (1) 2.2 idler on his 3.3

hocrest, are you trying to tell me you run your motor without a timing belt cover?? i dunno bout you but that has to be one of the dumbest things ive ever heard of. all it takes is for something to hit that belt and your motor is toast.

i can see it now, your driving along at about 65 maybe 2500rpm when you hit a rock, your belt sheers, and then your pistons destroy your valves and valve train and your looking at a brand new motor.

Your tech is either lying, or just stupid.

The EG33 timing belt is wider (google "width" not "diameter")

This belt requires a wider idler for the belt to have sufficient surface area to ride on.

I have run engines w/ covers, numerous others have run engines without covers. I am going to venture a guess that there may be 1billion other people right now running engines without covers. You might want to buff up on your Suby Knowledge Mopar Man before you start telling Suby guys what to do with their engines:rolleyes:

Tom

[Hocrest]

Yeah, so sorry. We're all wrong and you're right, go ahead and use a set of pulley's for a 2.2 on your EG-33.

[kwren]

Yeah, so sorry. We're all wrong and you're right, go ahead and use a set of pulley's for a 2.2 on your EG-33.

Again... To each his own...

Keith:cool:

[earthkin]

Well, FYI to those of you who have never had a tensioner fail... I just checked mine by releasing it with a scale measuring force, and it was below the minimum. So it does happen. It measured about 30 lbs with my crude set-up, and since the specification is: tension adjuster rod does not move with less than 33-110 lbs (15-50 kg) of force applied, (thanks Chris -- SoCal LS-L -- for finding the specs) I’m pretty sure it’s bad – I expected it to be somewhere mid-range, and I’m guessing it puts out around 100 lbs when new. No oil gushing out or other obvious sign, either, just that the timing belt apparently slipped. Darn, I hate it when the guys at Brakes Plus are right.