The middle east

[Duckie]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=media+israel

An excellent excellent video. For those of you who don't agree with the video...have fun debunking some of the most respected minds through out the world.

[Electrophil]

Lonnnnggg.... but interesting.

I didn't know any of the details on that Clinton backed deal between them. I wouldn't have done it either.

[Duckie]

Yeah the clinton thing was VERY shady and bush would not even be in the same situation had that deal never gone down. That being said it had nothing to do with clinton himself just as the current situation has NOTHING to do with bush other than comments he might make.

I believe this video is essential for the average person to understand what is REALLY happening in the middle east and more importantly WHY it is happening. Watching responses in all of Danny's threads, to be honest, disturbed me. People chime in as if they THE authority of the situation when in reality they know very little about it. Some people have been involved with this situation which makes their view point ridiculously scewed thanks to the amazing propaganda that they have been subjected to.

Please, please take the time to watch this people...you will not regret this. And as a final note my hat is off in a BIG way to chomsky...he pretty much has put his head on the chopping block for his comments. Some of the worlds most respected philosophers and journalists all came together and made this and to be honest it is surprising it exists...they all have bigger balls than I, yes even the women.

[Electrophil]

Thanks for edjumakatin' me Duckie.

[Duckie]

Pfffft we all have way too much to learn from each other...

Not to mention I know zero about most things. =(

[Duckie]

Danny, I hope you get a chance to watch this, it will explain a lot of why we have certain views of the events happening over there.

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by Duckie

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=media+israel

An excellent excellent video. For those of you who don't agree with the video...have fun debunking some of the most respected minds through out the world.

I also found it very interesting; however, it is the same type of propaganda that it accuses Israel of producing---except just from the other side. As far as our opinions are concerned--the actual truth is someplace in between.

Just one example----the video starts out referencing UN Resolution 242 which DOES require Israel to withdraw from occupied territories, BUT it also requires hostilities to stop and recognition of Israel's right to exist as a nation. Most Arab states and even the Palestinians (Hamas) WILL NOT recognize Israel's right to exist and have continued hostilities. Remember Israel DID withdraw unilaterally from GAZA and Hamas continued to fire rockets and even kidnapped the Israel soldier and civilian. Just look at both sides. Your video is a good one from the Palestinian side.

Yes, these are some "great minds" as you call them (not sure I would), but there are just as many great minds on the other side of the issue.

Lee

[Duckie]

Chomsky not a great mind? One of the most read and celebrated philosophers of our time...despite me not agreeing with much of what he writes I still find his writing to be very well thought out and compelling.

As far as the resolution goes the DID recognize israel as a state and the people and government stopped hostility. Just because a rogue orginization continues its hostility does NOT justify not stopping occupation or any kind of retaliation where innocent civillians would be harmed.

If you find this piece as propaganda then I am sorry but you are trying too hard. Everything stated in this video is undisputed fact (except from the commentary of course which will always be just that, commentary). Even when it comes to the commentary it was incredibly unbiased other than a few comments here and there which used overly strong words to describe a situation. How more neutral can a piece get when it says both sides are the cause of the problem? The video does a great job in pointing out several things.

1. In the battle of linguistics the media is raping Palestinian
2. The media backs America's agenda and only reports one side
3. israel's actions actually make suicide bombers and terrorism to increase thus being completly counter productive.
4. and several others...but these three core ideas are what is wrong with most peoples current view of the war.

One last thing...although you say this is a view from the Palestinian side...half of the people in this video are Jewish most born/have family in israel. This video is not divided by countries or religion but rather by reason. It presents both sides, states whats wrong with each side both with analytical analysis and cold hard facts. It presents a road to a solution and says that if equality of this issue is not presented then this will never be resolved justly. Just because it comes out seeming to favor one side does not mean its propaganda or that it favors one side of the issue.

One last last thing: although the video may seem propaganda-y when it talks of the annexation and eventual take over of the Palestinian state...sadly all of that has been confirmed by reports from Israel with slightly less harsh language. But I would agree that this video would hold much more merit if this section of it were to be taken out...it does take the idea and run with it a little bit. But if you ignore this the video is an incredible piece of education almost devoid of propaganda

[Electrophil]

But......

How do you fix it? The United States and it's society in general "wants" to justify Israel and it's actions. That is why we never question all the propaganda thrown at us. We literally want to believe it.

We don't exactly have an overwhelming number of strong allies in the Middle East besides Israel. 3/4ths of the Middle East would cut our throats merely due to it being Wednesday. Even our support from the Saudi's is via ruling body only. Their people merely tolerate us. That's not support.

The only way to fix this would be for us to have dependable allies in the Middle East besides Israel, and we only have a limited amount of control in this area. That would be up to them, for we were always willing. It's Middle Eastern's running around burning our flag. We aren't burning theirs. Where do they expect us to put our support?

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by Duckie

As far as the resolution goes the DID recognize israel as a state and the people and government stopped hostility. Just because a rogue orginization continues its hostility does NOT justify not stopping occupation or any kind of retaliation where innocent civillians would be harmed.

WHO recognized Israel and WHO stopped hostilities completely??? As I recall there was another war after the one covered by the resolution referenced.

As to a supposed "rogue" organization as you call them---I would hardly call an organization rogue if they are permitted by their government to openly have armed militias and to launch attacks from that territory without ANY actions taken by the government. Lack of action is a tacit approval by the government.

Do you want me to list the ME governments that DO NOT recognize Israel and have diplomatic relations with them---including the Lebanese and Palestinian Hamas faction which IS part of the government????? I could even list the ones that have openly threatened to "wipe them from the face of the earth".

Again---when ALL ME countries recognize Israel's right to exist without threat of military action----you will see a peaceful area except for possible infighting by various Muslim factions.
Israel is not an imperialistic power seeking more territory.

Lee

[Duckie]

Mr electro: Why do we need support in the middle east? Why do we have to have political ties there. Rhetorical because we all know why...but it is sad that we stir the sh#* stick so hard just to accomplish our agenda. We cause a large amount of suffering for a large portion of the world and frankly it doesnt have to be that way. So how do we fix it? We fix it the same way we fixed all problems where the majority supported it. Why do women have rights, why do we not have slavery, why no child labour? Education and an open thought process lead to progressive changes. ZOMGZ change...its what our government fears more than anything.

Mr hopp77: Just because a rogue orginization gains support from the people and is then brought into office does not change the fact that the actions I am speaking of where, at the time, completly independent of the government. ZOMGZ how could I have thought israel was an imperialistic state. Oh wait a minute...I just checked and I apparently never posted that; you my friend should sign up for Israel's PR campaign because it appears you have propaganda and the language switch down already. Btw the KKK is endorsed by the US government...does that mean they are responsible for any actions they take? P.S. their website is rolfcopter funny imo.

But in all seriousness, it doesn't matter what Israel really is because that is all gone. Israel IS the United States in many aspects they are nothing more but a post modernistic neo colony.

You are very good at slight of hand and putting the real issue behind doors; why not discuss the video instead of nitpicking at my comments. You simply said "Good video BUT blah blah blah" can you honestly stand by and say that what is going on over there on the Israel side is just? Everyone in the video has already condemed what is being done by the other side but they show there is at least a cause and effect relationship. You just sit back and nitpick and ignore facts. Being one of the top ranking Speech and Debate national competitors in the NFL when I was in HS, I could sit here and find something wrong with ANYTHING. However, a tiny flaw or even a blatant hypocritic stance does not invalidate fact and you seem to ignore that.

[Electrophil]

Duckie, you are assuming Lee actually watched that video.

Lee didn't watch that video for more than 30 seconds. He's a cliff notes kind of guy, which explains his blinded support for this administration.