Bye Mitt!

[sicksubie]

Originally Posted by chaswiggins

Buddy well get used to it. This country wouldn't work without taxes and thanks to the Bush admins terrible decisions, my great grandchildren will be paying for this war. The only way to get back on track fiscally is to elect a Democrat.

Again basic econ stuff here. LOWER TAXES= HIGHER GOVERNMENT REVENUE

[chaswiggins]

Long term it probably would be a good thing for smaller government but why waist time/money on a presidency and an agenda that just aint gonna happen. Ron Paul unfortunetly will be a footnote in american history.

LOWER TAXES= HIGHER GOVERNMENT REVENUE

If its as simple as that, why do we have a mindboggling deficit.

[NikFu S.]

Originally Posted by chaswiggins

I completely agree with you but in the world of politics one has to be realistic. He wants to essentially get rid of all government agengies, which would leave millions of people without high paying government jobs. The private sector couldn't provide those people with instant jobs. Do you know what would happen if millions of people with +50k salaries lost there jobs overnight. Recession. Stock market crash. Depression. Its that easy.

If Ron Paul toned down his rhetoric just a little he might appeal to more people, but to revamp a 3.1Trillion budget economy its gonna take a lot more than a good guy with pretty good ideas.

That's kind of a pessimistic view, he won't just shut down the government, and he's only trying to get rid of the agencies that are broken. He's not even trying to get rid of things like the Department of Education, he just wants each state to run their own departments because the Federal system is severely broken. I'm sure his approach would be very systematic and jobs replaced with something actually useful.

Way I see it, the gov will never be fixed if we never elect a person willing to change it at the core.

It does seem he will be a footnote in history, though, because people who like him think he cannot win.
I hear it all the time. "Ron Paul is a great candidate but he'll never win so I won't vote for him."

I see Iraq and Osama were brought up so here is a little copy/paste to mull over concerning how the war on terror really began.

Dan on Islam:
I think the problem is that many Americans simply have no understanding of the world outside their borders. They think that Islamic people have an irrational hatred of them, but in a large part it is rational.

First America set up the state of Israel, and that pushed all of the Palestinians into Jordan and Lebanon. And they backed Israel's independence through three wars with their neighbours. So you have Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon all hating America and the rest of the area isn't very sympathetic to Israel's existence.

Then they backed the Mujahideen and the Taliban in Afghanistan, but only for the war, and they gave nothing to help rebuild the country. So Afghanistan is full of American trained and equipped freedom fighters/terrorists that know how to conduct guerrilla warfare but don't have a primary education. Any education they do get will be provided by the Taliban. So guess who they love?

Meanwhile American corporations have been backing whatever Saudi royal families will give them access to their oil so that the few people in charge get ridiculously rich off of selling their national resources.

America supported Iraq invading Iran, but then later went to war to defend Kuwait against Iraq. The reason was that the pro American Iranian monarchy had been overthrown before the war, so the USA wanted a new leader, so the urged Iraq to attack them. Hussein had his own reasons as well, and the two countries have always had religious tensions. In Kuwait as well, the USA used their position to established a friendly autocratic government. Democracy my ass! Directly or by proxy, America has been involved in almost every war in the Middle East in the last half century.

And now both Afghanistan and Iraq are neck deep in ****. There is no happy ending for either of these countries. The people are much worse off than they were before, and you have another generation growing up hating America. The more you take from people, the less they have to lose when they want revenge. For all of the money spent on Iraq, probably more than a trillion dollars now, it would have been more efficient to just pay every Iraqi to buy a satellite tv and a car and start living the American capitlist dream. The only ones that profited from the Iraq war were Haliburton, Israel, and maybe Iran.

So you see it really would be the same if you replaced Islam with any religion for that area.

Originally Posted by chaswiggins

If its as simple as that, why do we have a mindboggling deficit.

Thank the [Non]Federal Reserve. There are may facets to the problem, but the FR is the gem they are crowed upon.

[chaswiggins]

Oil is key, that is the primary reason why we are over there.

Nobody talks about how Condi Rice was on the board of directors at Chevron. In fact she was so good at what she did at Chevron they put her name on the side of one of there oil tankers.

Ironic that they painted over her name on that ship when she was in the Cabinet.

[NikFu S.]

Oh no, we know all about Condi. She just has a lot of support from people like herself. The oil companies are pretty much in control of government right now. They strongarm politicians (or are elected as them) and cry like babies when they don't get their way.
That is exactly why we are over there. I don't even have a problem with oil imperialism, I just wish our government would be honest and say, "hey, we want your oil and we're going to kill you and our own troops to get it". I might not be so anti-government if they would just stop lying and being so secretive.
But no, if they were truthful in conquest like an honorable empire there would be [more] resistance, and we can't have that.

[chaswiggins]

Well said. Its ridiculous.

You know I could see Obama having Ron Paul in his cabinet.

Obama has said if he were elected he would want people around him that would challenge his ideas, challenge conventional wisdom. No better than Ron Paul for that. Plus Paul wants to bring the troops home too so thats good.

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by chaswiggins

If its as simple as that, why do we have a mindboggling deficit.

Check out the built in growth to entitlement programs. Those programs that pay people for doing nothing and NOT being productive.

But it is very true that lower taxes create additional revenue. Why should an entrepeneur hire more people and produce more goods if he is going to have to pay 75 percent of it in taxes or even some very large percentage? He would be better off producing at a lower level with lower tax rates. Simple economics---higher taxes do NOT stimulate production, job growth or company growth.

Lee

[chaswiggins]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Simple economics---higher taxes do NOT stimulate production, job growth or company growth.

But your assumption is that any democrat in office will raise taxes. I'm a democrat but also very pro-life.

[NikFu S.]

It is very unlikely any one person fits any party model to the letter. This is why the party system is flawed.

Off subject, I just read from someone that Obama turns his back to the flag when there is pledging of allegiance? Not that I care, but does anyone know what that is about?

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

Off subject, I just read from someone that Obama turns his back to the flag when there is pledging of allegiance? Not that I care, but does anyone know what that is about?

he hates America, and will overrun it with SWAT teams if elected!

[sicksubie]

Obama turns his back and will not recite the pledge. There was an article online where he was interviewed and explained why.

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by chaswiggins

Buddy well get used to it. This country wouldn't work without taxes and thanks to the Bush admins terrible decisions, my great grandchildren will be paying for this war. The only way to get back on track fiscally is to elect a Democrat.

Doh, the republicans controlled all three branches of government, its impossible to pass any legislation when Capitol Hill is hijacked. The dems knew that they'd have to wait until 06 when the country was ready to boot it republican elected officials. Now that congress is narrowly democratically controlled, the republicans can filibuster any legislation that might thwart their doomed agenda.

Of course taxes are needed to run this country---I just don't want to pay anymore or for many of the reasons liberal democrats spend megabucks. As we ALL know a basic concept of these people is to redistribute wealth (but actually read income).

I seem to recall that Democrats have controlled both houses of Congress for over a year now. Again, my question----what legislature did she or her buddie EVEN introduce???????????

Lee

[chaswiggins]

Haha thats called propaganda or as I would like to call Rove politics.

You will find all kind of misinformation on the internet, but you have to just go one more step to find the truth.

Of course he recites the pledge. In fact he leads in reciting the pledge in congress. HE'S A SENATOR!!! Do you all actually think Chi-town would elect a traitor.

The picture thats floating around the internet where he isn't holding his hand on his heart; there reciting the National Anthem not the Pledge of Allegiance.

Everybody knows you don't have to hold your hand over your heart during the National Anthem.

There is a reason why there hasn't been one negative ad against Obama. Its hard to find a bad thing about him.

[NikFu S.]

He's on the Council on Foreign Relations.