Read this one

[SilverSpear]

Originally Posted by Noir

In every photo I see a terrorist hiding behind every old woman and child.

Oh really? Show me some evidence, isn't what your justice core is all about?Or what applies as Justice and Fairness in your system doesn't apply for the rest of the World?

What is Fair is Fair and what is Just is Just. I was trying to be realistic when I told you that what Hizbullah did was wrong, but the Israeli attacks are exagerated... but seeing how you guys are supporting the extermination of an entire population, I wish Hizbullah keeps throwing rockets over the Jews because they really F*&%^ deserve it

[Noir]

Originally Posted by triumph1902

I love it how we hate terrorism but never consider the underlying factors behind it. Danny has just seen his world crumble around him. He has seen 1000 of his people viciously murdered. There are currently thousands of foreign soldiers advancing and invading his country at this moment. Give him a break already!!!!

Put yourself in his position for a moment. Tell me that if some country was doing this to America... would you not support a resistance! You would be obligated as an american to defend your country. And if anyone still thinks Israel was justified in invading Lebanon because of the kidnapping of 2 soldiers, you need to do some research. There are thousand of lebanese hostages in israeli cells. They have been there since Israel first invaded Lebanon. Even though israel pulled out of lebanon in 2000 it was still occupying parts of lebanon. The lebanese had every reason to confront Israel.

Hezbollah is a product of the Israeli invasion 24 years ago...they are the catalyst, they created hezbollah...and as they continue to invade and kill innocent people they the Israelis are creating more terrorism which unfortunately targets us. I'm tired of seeing American soldiers and civilians dying because israel wants to rough up its neighbors.

As for the Chechnyans mentioned in that article… If the world knew what Russia has done to the Chechnyans...than Putin and all his generals would be facing the death penalty right now

[Noir]

Originally Posted by SilverSpear

Oh really? Show me some evidence, isn't what your justice core is all about?Or what applies as Justice and Fairness in your system doesn't apply for the rest of the World?

What is Fair is Fair and what is Just is Just. I was trying to be realistic when I told you that what Hizbullah did was wrong, but the Israeli attacks are exagerated... but seeing how you guys are supporting the extermination of an entire population, I wish Hizbullah keeps throwing rockets over the Jews because they really F*&%^ deserve it

i could swore i saw like eleventybillion11!!11!1! terrorists hiding in the shadows...

[WGJ]

Yes, perhaps Israel should have hit more quickly, harder, and on the ground; yes, it has run an inept public relations campaign; yes, to these criticisms and more. But what is lost sight of is the central moral issue of our times: a humane democracy mired in an asymmetrical war is trying to protect itself against terrorists from the 7th century, while under the scrutiny of a corrupt world that needs oil, is largely anti-Semitic and deathly afraid of Islamic terrorists, and finds psychic enjoyment in seeing successful Western societies under duress.

In short, if we wish to learn what was going on in Europe in 1938, just look around.

AN IMAGINARY INTERVIEW WITH NOAM CHOMSKY...

(ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED AUG 14, 2001)

"We were sitting around at home today when we thought to ourselves: "**** it, dudes. Let's go fishing."
And so, we went fishing. And it was while we were fishing that we encountered our old pal, Noam Chomsky, distinguished professor of linguistics at M.I.T. and genuine, blue-ribbon, gold-medal ****-disturber extraordinaire. We often meet Noam when we go fishing, so this chance encounter was not the surprise you might think it to be. Anyway, as is always the case whenever we meet up with our old buddy Noam, we asked him what was on his mind these days.
He said: "Corporate propaganda."
We almost said: "Still?!" But then we regained our senses. For people who don't give a rat's ass about the complexities of contemporary linguistic phenomenological matrices, Noam can seem like a broken record sometimes. But his is a song that is always worth listening to, whether or not it makes your booty shake. So we pressed him for details. What effect has corporate propaganda had on society at large, we asked?
"The effect has been, pretty much, to demolish civil society," he answered. "To turn people into what is the ideal. And the ideal is very clear. The ideal is a completely fragmented, atomized society, where everyone is totally alone, doing nothing but trying to pursue created wants. They don't have any connection with anyone else. You don't see anyone else, you don't deal with anyone else, you're an atom of consumption. And you go to work at lower and lower wages for more and more hours and less and less benefits and security in a 'flexible' labor market. That's the kind of utopia that they're looking, for and we're not very far from there."
"Sounds about right," we replied. We couldn't help ourselves. Kindly, he saw fit to ignore us and continue.
"I mean, the country is like a devastated peasant society. You really have to go back to Europe and the Black Death, the 14th century, to find anything similar. People are scared, angry, hostile, hate everything, don't know what they hate, don't have anybody else to talk to. Just angry, desperate times."
"And how!" we enthused. "But what are some of the external manifestations of this encroaching solipsism?"
"There are cults all over the place at a scale that is unknown in any other society," he replied. For the first time since he began speaking, his voice broke from its pleasant, calming drone and became ever slightly more animated. "The level of religious fundamentalism alone is probably the highest in the world. I'm almost certain it's higher than in Iran."
Having read many hundreds of megabytes of e-mail from hundreds of easily offended fundamentalist Christianoid porn-hounds, ourselves, we couldn't help but nod our heads in agreement. He continued…
"Across the board, it's just a dissolved society. The portent is ominous. You know, it's the kind of situation that is indeed very reminiscent of Germany in the late 30's, or Iran in the late 70's, and it's very frightening. Indeed, it's much more frightening when it happens here."
There wasn't much we could say to that. Nothing sucks quite as hard as having your worst fears and suspicions reinforced by one of the greatest minds of the post-war world. We shook his hand and went back home, stopping along the way to pick up some fish at the supermarket, for supper. Yet even as we were perusing the fresh trout and red snapper, we were thinking, pondering, fulminating. As always, Noam had struck a chord in us.
We thought about our many libertarian-minded friends who are heavy into the whole digital revolution thing -- real code-head, techno-fascist, hacker types -- who can't wait for online piracy to deliver its final, crippling blow to the current infrastructures and hierarchies of the established 'content delivery' specialists: AOL/Time/Warner, the film and recording industries... the only mechanisms by which artists are currently able to eek out a living, basically.
On the flip side of the same coin, we also thought about the great many gun-nut 'survivalist' types who are waiting on an even more wide-ranging collapse of social and governmental systems so they can emerge from the darkened woods and lead the rest of us to a glorious future full of rugged individualism. Being rugged individuals themselves -- the lucky minority who know how to distill their own urine into a refreshing potable drink -- they look forward to this potential future like the average high school boy looks forward to getting his first blow-job.
Nowadays, in other words, it seems like most everybody is biding their time, just waiting around for some ill-defined revolution so they can use their own personal advantages to claw their way to the top of the pecking order. Everybody wants to be top dog, and, like the spoiled brats we so obviously are, most of us are holding our breath until our very own pet revolutionary project makes that transition from wishful thinking to paradigm-bursting reality...
...except for us, that is. We're just waiting for people to start reading again, for progressive rock to make a comeback, for a pill that lets you eat whatever you want without ever gaining weight, for the decriminalization of marijuana, and for the day when the Chandra Condit Memorial Parking Lot and the big-budget Hollywood movie about Dubya's fraudulent Preznitcy will be nothing but a distant, fading memory."

WGJ

[SilverSpear]

Originally Posted by Noir

i could swore i saw like eleventybillion11!!11!1! terrorists hiding in the shadows...

People do swear they saw stuff in Courts, but without the evidence you have no case

[Royal Tiger]

Danny, although I can't say I totally understand your point of view as you are living it, and we have had some same thoughts on other issues, but your signature is way off. If Isreal ceased to exsist, I doubt there would be world peace. Religon is the stupidist reason for armed conflict, but one we come coming back to. When they stop preaching would domination and death to non-believers in mosques, maybe there will be progress. You still failed to aknowledge my points in my first post. Why can't the local muslims be happy Syrian's, Jordanian's, or Lebanese? Why must blowing up busses of children be the way to further your goals?

As for Trimph's point about what if it was happening here, I look back to the movie "Red Dawn" about the Soviets invading the US. The resistance didn't kill civilians and I wouldn't either. If they had invaded, what would killing soldier's wifes and kids do? Nothing except increase the level of barbarity.

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by Royal Tiger

As for Trimph's point about what if it was happening here, I look back to the movie "Red Dawn" about the Soviets invading the US. The resistance didn't kill civilians and I wouldn't either. If they had invaded, what would killing soldier's wifes and kids do? Nothing except increase the level of barbarity.

Strange that you would reference "Red Dawn". Most of it was filmed within 5 miles of where I live and the rest was actually filmed in Las Vegas (called Calumet, CO in the movie)--town closest to me. Patrick Swayze owns 35,000+ acres included some used for the filming. The local drive-in theater (still operating in the summer) was where the prisoners were held. By coincidence the Russian/Cuban headquarters building that was "blown up" in the movie---fell prey to our current rainy season only 2 weeks ago. The roof fell in and caused the brick wall on the main road to collapse. So, they tore it down---such a shame as it was a historical building constructed in the 1890s and then used in the movie.

Just a bit of BS trivia.

Lee

[Weebitob]

Originally Posted by WGJ

Yes, perhaps Israel should have hit more quickly, harder, and on the ground; yes, it has run an inept public relations campaign; yes, to these criticisms and more. But what is lost sight of is the central moral issue of our times: a humane democracy mired in an asymmetrical war is trying to protect itself against terrorists from the 7th century, while under the scrutiny of a corrupt world that needs oil, is largely anti-Semitic and deathly afraid of Islamic terrorists, and finds psychic enjoyment in seeing successful Western societies under duress.

In short, if we wish to learn what was going on in Europe in 1938, just look around.

AN IMAGINARY INTERVIEW WITH NOAM CHOMSKY...

(ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED AUG 14, 2001)

"We were sitting around at home today when we thought to ourselves: "**** it, dudes. Let's go fishing."
And so, we went fishing. And it was while we were fishing that we encountered our old pal, Noam Chomsky, distinguished professor of linguistics at M.I.T. and genuine, blue-ribbon, gold-medal ****-disturber extraordinaire. We often meet Noam when we go fishing, so this chance encounter was not the surprise you might think it to be. Anyway, as is always the case whenever we meet up with our old buddy Noam, we asked him what was on his mind these days.
He said: "Corporate propaganda."
We almost said: "Still?!" But then we regained our senses. For people who don't give a rat's ass about the complexities of contemporary linguistic phenomenological matrices, Noam can seem like a broken record sometimes. But his is a song that is always worth listening to, whether or not it makes your booty shake. So we pressed him for details. What effect has corporate propaganda had on society at large, we asked?
"The effect has been, pretty much, to demolish civil society," he answered. "To turn people into what is the ideal. And the ideal is very clear. The ideal is a completely fragmented, atomized society, where everyone is totally alone, doing nothing but trying to pursue created wants. They don't have any connection with anyone else. You don't see anyone else, you don't deal with anyone else, you're an atom of consumption. And you go to work at lower and lower wages for more and more hours and less and less benefits and security in a 'flexible' labor market. That's the kind of utopia that they're looking, for and we're not very far from there."
"Sounds about right," we replied. We couldn't help ourselves. Kindly, he saw fit to ignore us and continue.
"I mean, the country is like a devastated peasant society. You really have to go back to Europe and the Black Death, the 14th century, to find anything similar. People are scared, angry, hostile, hate everything, don't know what they hate, don't have anybody else to talk to. Just angry, desperate times."
"And how!" we enthused. "But what are some of the external manifestations of this encroaching solipsism?"
"There are cults all over the place at a scale that is unknown in any other society," he replied. For the first time since he began speaking, his voice broke from its pleasant, calming drone and became ever slightly more animated. "The level of religious fundamentalism alone is probably the highest in the world. I'm almost certain it's higher than in Iran."
Having read many hundreds of megabytes of e-mail from hundreds of easily offended fundamentalist Christianoid porn-hounds, ourselves, we couldn't help but nod our heads in agreement. He continued…
"Across the board, it's just a dissolved society. The portent is ominous. You know, it's the kind of situation that is indeed very reminiscent of Germany in the late 30's, or Iran in the late 70's, and it's very frightening. Indeed, it's much more frightening when it happens here."
There wasn't much we could say to that. Nothing sucks quite as hard as having your worst fears and suspicions reinforced by one of the greatest minds of the post-war world. We shook his hand and went back home, stopping along the way to pick up some fish at the supermarket, for supper. Yet even as we were perusing the fresh trout and red snapper, we were thinking, pondering, fulminating. As always, Noam had struck a chord in us.
We thought about our many libertarian-minded friends who are heavy into the whole digital revolution thing -- real code-head, techno-fascist, hacker types -- who can't wait for online piracy to deliver its final, crippling blow to the current infrastructures and hierarchies of the established 'content delivery' specialists: AOL/Time/Warner, the film and recording industries... the only mechanisms by which artists are currently able to eek out a living, basically.
On the flip side of the same coin, we also thought about the great many gun-nut 'survivalist' types who are waiting on an even more wide-ranging collapse of social and governmental systems so they can emerge from the darkened woods and lead the rest of us to a glorious future full of rugged individualism. Being rugged individuals themselves -- the lucky minority who know how to distill their own urine into a refreshing potable drink -- they look forward to this potential future like the average high school boy looks forward to getting his first blow-job.
Nowadays, in other words, it seems like most everybody is biding their time, just waiting around for some ill-defined revolution so they can use their own personal advantages to claw their way to the top of the pecking order. Everybody wants to be top dog, and, like the spoiled brats we so obviously are, most of us are holding our breath until our very own pet revolutionary project makes that transition from wishful thinking to paradigm-bursting reality...
...except for us, that is. We're just waiting for people to start reading again, for progressive rock to make a comeback, for a pill that lets you eat whatever you want without ever gaining weight, for the decriminalization of marijuana, and for the day when the Chandra Condit Memorial Parking Lot and the big-budget Hollywood movie about Dubya's fraudulent Preznitcy will be nothing but a distant, fading memory."

WGJ

If you posted that on any other "political" forum, the users would be either be sending you death threats or be too embarrassed to reply. It also goes with mine as well as other people's theories that America or a good part of the more prominent modern civilazation is starting to get a more ant colony like mentality so I think I may do that. But I wonder if that means then I would fit the bill? I also find the closing statement to that article a bit ironic as well.

I also think I found the influence for one of my favorite band's songs.

[SilverSpear]

Originally Posted by Royal Tiger

Danny, although I can't say I totally understand your point of view as you are living it, and we have had some same thoughts on other issues, but your signature is way off. If Isreal ceased to exsist, I doubt there would be world peace. Religon is the stupidist reason for armed conflict, but one we come coming back to. When they stop preaching would domination and death to non-believers in mosques, maybe there will be progress. You still failed to aknowledge my points in my first post. Why can't the local muslims be happy Syrian's, Jordanian's, or Lebanese? Why must blowing up busses of children be the way to further your goals?

As for Trimph's point about what if it was happening here, I look back to the movie "Red Dawn" about the Soviets invading the US. The resistance didn't kill civilians and I wouldn't either. If they had invaded, what would killing soldier's wifes and kids do? Nothing except increase the level of barbarity.

Man, I swear I replied to this many times before... In all my posts I am trying to explain to you how muslims think, this is a fact they believe in and I AM ALWAYS AGAINST IT.

They are sentimental people to one another. There is not difference between an egyptian muslim or a malaysian muslim. They are seeing how their fellow muslims are being prosecuted and driven out of their homes in Palestine by Israelis and how the US which is an ally of Israel attacked Iraq... they started blowing themselves up (which is considered as the ultimate weapon after Nukes) because they had no heavy artillery as Israel has. So they think they would inflict the most damage possible by suicide attacks.

Pls do not get me wrong on this one, I am not supporting them at all. My signature is just a suggestion for worldwide peace...

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by SilverSpear

They are sentimental people to one another. There is not difference between an egyptian muslim or a malaysian muslim. They are seeing how their fellow muslims are being prosecuted and driven out of their homes in Palestine by Israelis and how the US which is an ally of Israel attacked Iraq... they started blowing themselves up (which is considered as the ultimate weapon after Nukes) because they had no heavy artillery as Israel has. So they think they would inflict the most damage possible by suicide attacks...

Suuuurrrrrrrrrreeee---they love each other some much that is the reason they are fighting each other in Iraq, why Iraq and Iran fought their war-----true love amongst the Muslims.

Lee

[SilverSpear]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Suuuurrrrrrrrrreeee---they love each other some much that is the reason they are fighting each other in Iraq, why Iraq and Iran fought their war-----true love amongst the Muslims.

Lee

Hahahahaaaa, well your commando troops bombed the most holy places these guys have and inserted some evidence that the other party did it... who you think caused this war? and why it hasn't expanded to the rest of the Muslim world???

and I may ask, why Italy fought UK, US fought Vietnam, Germany fought France, etc.... questions are always asked... all people get into a misunderstanding some point in life, and then they kiss and makeup later.

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by SilverSpear

Hahahahaaaa, well your commando troops bombed the most holy places these guys have and inserted some evidence that the other party did it... who you think caused this war? and why it hasn't expanded to the rest of the Muslim world???

Who fed you this ludicrous piece of fiction? The Sunni (Al Qaeda) force behind the mosque car bombing-CAR BOMBING-even publically claimed credit for it. Was this some Hezbollah BS propaganda that you are spouting???? You are totally unbelievable and obviously completely blinded by pure propaganda.

Lee

[SilverSpear]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Who fed you this ludicrous piece of fiction? The Sunni (Al Qaeda) force behind the mosque car bombing-CAR BOMBING-even publically claimed credit for it. Was this some Hezbollah BS propaganda that you are spouting???? You are totally unbelievable and obviously completely blinded by pure propaganda.

Lee

Sorry, didn't get what you just said... what is the relation of Al Quaeda to Hezballah?
Al Quaeda is a terrorist group, they bomb places and they publicly declare they did it.
Hezballah never did that except what happened 24 years ago...

So?

[WGJ]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Who fed you this ludicrous piece of fiction? The Sunni (Al Qaeda) force behind the mosque car bombing-CAR BOMBING-even publically claimed credit for it. Was this some Hezbollah BS propaganda that you are spouting???? You are totally unbelievable and obviously completely blinded by pure propaganda.

Lee

Lee
You've been lapping up Bush, et al's ludicrous pieces of fiction for years.
Was this some Republican BS propaganda that you are spouting????
Yes, it was!
Are you totally unbelievable and obviously completely blinded by pure propaganda. ?
Yes, you are!
Have you ever shown us one thing Bush has has gotten right?
No, you haven't!
Have you disproven even one of the Fabulous Fifty?
No, you haven't!
Is your reasoning flawed?
Yes it is, you are the Master of the non sequitur, argumentum ad populum, argumentum ad vereundiam, the fallacy of presupposition, the irrelevant conclusion and numerous other flaws in logic and reasoning.

Worst of all is you continue to fail to see the monumental HYPOCRISY of what you say..."obviously completely blinded by pure propaganda. "!

WGJ

Dufus,
I'll give you a hint, Bush did do one thing right, very recently. Can you guess what?

[sorceror]

Originally Posted by triumph1902

I love it how we hate terrorism but never consider the underlying factors behind it. Danny has just seen his world crumble around him. He has seen 1000 of his people viciously murdered. There are currently thousands of foreign soldiers advancing and invading his country at this moment. Give him a break already!!!!

Put yourself in his position for a moment. Tell me that if some country was doing this to America... would you not support a resistance! You would be obligated as an american to defend your country. And if anyone still thinks Israel was justified in invading Lebanon because of the kidnapping of 2 soldiers, you need to do some research. There are thousand of lebanese hostages in israeli cells. They have been there since Israel first invaded Lebanon. Even though israel pulled out of lebanon in 2000 it was still occupying parts of lebanon. The lebanese had every reason to confront Israel.

Hezbollah is a product of the Israeli invasion 24 years ago...they are the catalyst, they created hezbollah...and as they continue to invade and kill innocent people they the Israelis are creating more terrorism which unfortunately targets us. I'm tired of seeing American soldiers and civilians dying because israel wants to rough up its neighbors.

As for the Chechnyans mentioned in that article… If the world knew what Russia has done to the Chechnyans...than Putin and all his generals would be facing the death penalty right now

I'm sorry Triumph. Hezbollah raided Israel, captured 2 hostages and murdered 8 human beings under, I suspect, the direction of Iran. That is a classic example of an act of war. They then proceeded to launch missiles, supplied to them from Iran and Syria, purposefully and deliberately into Israels civillian areas. !000's of his people were not murdered they were killed in combat protecting the Hezbollah. The Hezbollah started this and Israel responded! To try and turn it around by saying what would we do here in the US is utterly absurd. Get the facts right. Yes if the USA were attacked the way the hezbollah attacked Israel I would indeed join the resistance to the Hezbollah terrorists. The prisoners in Israel are in jail because of specific war crimes and should not be released. Sheesh you need to read all of the threads on this subject and read about America's peace keeping attempt and hezbollah's abject murder of soldiers sent there to protect THEM! Quit blaming the USA for their racist, terrorist fanatics! You actually condone the killimg of Americans because a bunch of racist fanatics have sworn to destroy Israel at all cost? You mind has been poisoned by someone somewhere that you considered to be a friend but only meant to fill your mind with hatred, lies, treasonous thoughts and racism. Trust me those fanatics will smile to your face but don't ever think every single one of them wants you dead for not believing as they do. WAKE UP!

Then Danny's response to you of how he loves you cracks me up. Why wouldn't a backer posibly even a member of a terrorist faction not love someone whose mind they have so successfully poisoned?