Lets settle the debate, the truth about FWD vs. AWD - Page 3

b3lha · #31 12-31-2007, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redlightningsvx

I've always wondered this also about switching ecu's for no govener but doesn't the ecutune chip negate the govern?

I have a memory dump of a USDM 94 ECU supplied by Upnorth362. I have looked at the ECU program and I can't see any deliberate speed limit.

On the JDM ECU it's really obvious, but it just isn't there on the USDM one. If somebody is sure their USDM SVX has a limiter then send me a ECU dump and I'll check it out.

SVeXy96 · #32 12-31-2007, 06:09 AM

This whole debate is rediculous to me. FWD vs AWD is a matter of style and preference. If all you are about is who can drive in a straight line for a half mile the fastest then my guess is FWD is better cause its lighter, but as far as everyday driving and inclement weather I don't care...nothing beats AWD PERIOD! And me personally I could care less how fast my SVX can go a quarter mile if I'm feeling "the need for speed" that bad I'll hop a $20 flight to another island where I can go 0-150+ in about 4 seconds. When it comes to cars if there's no curves in the track I'm not interested. Straight line racing is just a metaphor for men to argue who has bigger balls or a bigger penis...

in my opinion at least.

svxistentialist · #33 12-31-2007, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b3lha

I have a memory dump of a USDM 94 ECU supplied by Upnorth362. I have looked at the ECU program and I can't see any deliberate speed limit.

On the JDM ECU it's really obvious, but it just isn't there on the USDM one. If somebody is sure their USDM SVX has a limiter then send me a ECU dump and I'll check it out.

This is the point I'm trying to make Phil. The US cars top speed is limited by the high gearing, not by the ECU. It would be good to get the ECU dump and put this fairy tale to bed once and for all.

Joe

LetItSnow · #34 12-31-2007, 07:36 AM

The topic has left the building.

svxistentialist · #35 12-31-2007, 07:39 AM

The title is called "Let's settle the debate, the truth about FWD vs AWD"

If the topic has left the building, what exactly has been settled?

LetItSnow · #36 12-31-2007, 08:00 AM

I didn't intend to imply that anything has been settled. Can anything be settled? Without intentions of taking this more awry, the question that I have is about exactly what this thread is for?

Magazine statistics?

Legitimate data?

Bragging rights and personal preference?

If it's one of the first two, and the cars vary by domestic market, then that should be sorted out, as well.

"Debate" and "truth" can't coexist, anyway.

I'm not a fan of magazine racing. Top speed calculations are tangible numbers, but I don't know how many of us break 136 miles per hour to use it as much more than "look what I got" numbers. Personal preference is a foregone conclusion. We seem to have gone in these three directions in this thread.

svxistentialist · #37 12-31-2007, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVeXy96

This whole debate is rediculous to me. FWD vs AWD is a matter of style and preference. If all you are about is who can drive in a straight line for a half mile the fastest then my guess is FWD is better cause its lighter, but as far as everyday driving and inclement weather I don't care...nothing beats AWD PERIOD! And me personally I could care less how fast my SVX can go a quarter mile if I'm feeling "the need for speed" that bad I'll hop a $20 flight to another island where I can go 0-150+ in about 4 seconds. When it comes to cars if there's no curves in the track I'm not interested. Straight line racing is just a metaphor for men to argue who has bigger balls or a bigger penis...

in my opinion at least.

You make a very good point, and I'll agree with your opinion, and go farther.

ALL racing, oval track, straight line, twisty circuit, rally, rally cross, all racing comes down to one guy trying to prove he is a better man than the other guy. Or has a better car. Or has faster reactions. Or in many cases has a bigger bank balance.

So just because straight line racing is not your thang, there really is no point in raining on the other guy's parade.

This does not affect the issue in this thread; the fwd drive cars have the same hp and drag factor and tyres as the AWD cars, but have less weight, therefore they are faster, that's the bottom line, suck on it and learn to live with it.

The AWD rear assist US car is a better car than the FWD car, that's my own opinion, but it's slower because it's heavier. The Euro and JDM SVX is a better car than the US AWD car because it has the full-time VTD gearbox, plus the lower final drive of 3.70. That's my opinion too, but I'm sticking to it.

Best SVX of the lot has got to be a VTD equipped car with the 4.44 final drive and all the toys. I don't think that car has been built yet, unless our Japanese brothers have done it.

Joe

svxistentialist · #38 12-31-2007, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LetItSnow

I didn't intend to imply that anything has been settled. Can anything be settled? Without intentions of taking this more awry, the question that I have is about exactly what this thread is for?

Magazine statistics?

Legitimate data?

Bragging rights and personal preference?

If it's one of the first two, and the cars vary by domestic market, then that should be sorted out, as well.

"Debate" and "truth" can't coexist, anyway.

I'm not a fan of magazine racing. Top speed calculations are tangible numbers, but I don't know how many of us break 136 miles per hour to use it as much more than "look what I got" numbers. Personal preference is a foregone conclusion. We seem to have gone in these three directions in this thread.

You are spot on what you say here, and there is always a dichotomy in magazine tests between what has actually been "measured" in performance tests, and what is subjective opinion.

All three directions are valid debating points IMO taking the title at its broadest sense.

My first car was JDM, and I did test the limiter BTW, so I can say with certainty that when you hit it, you know it.

It cuts the sparks, like having the engine die.

What red lightning is describing is the car not being able to pull beyond 132 mph or so, and this is not a limiter or a governor.

I think we all need to take what we think are performance figures for our cars with a pinch of salt. When the manufacturers supply cars to journos for testing, they have usually been fettled and blueprinted and optimised to give good test results. We could all knock a few mph off what we think our cars can do, and add a few seconds to the elapsed times, it would be more realistic.

Joe

LetItSnow · #39 12-31-2007, 09:06 AM

If those three measures all contribute, then I offer this:

No matter what the magazines rate the various years of the SVX for regarding performance, mine is so far from stock right now that I doubt that any of them apply.

If I ever got around to exploring the speed cutoff and got caught, the missus might well hang up on me when I used my one phone call. This tank won't see large track time under my control... I'll leave this one up to the pros.

Central NY = big snow = AWD, or cowering with the uninitiated.

lhopp77 · #40 12-31-2007, 09:50 AM

I also have both FWD and AWD. As to overall driving, I much prefer the AWD. However, my FWD is definitely faster in all respects (and it has the most miles of all of them). I live in the wide open spaces with higher speed limits and fewer blue lighters--do I need to say more. The FWD takes the curves great--the AWD is just better. Yes, there is torque steer on the FWD--but not terribly bad.

I could care less about the light to light speed as this car was never designed to be a dragster. The lower gear ratios are a waste of money to me unless you just needed to replace the tranny and that was the cheapest option.

And actually if you put leather seats in the FWD there is very little difference in the accoutrements. I have everything in mine except for ABS brakes (the lack of which lightens the car by several pounds) and the suede trim. Of course, the leather seats and some other things were not stock for the car.

Oh, yes, I haven't noticed anyone mention the increased head space in the cars without sunroofs.

I also, do not accept the test figures as cold hard facts as there is a very high probability that the test standards and or vehicle equipment varied from year to year. They are just good "marks on the wall" for general performance data.

Just my .02.

Lee

TomsSVX · #41 12-31-2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svxistentialist

So Tom, the numbers don't mean squatt, unless of course somebody is racing the SVX, in which case we will then claim bragging rights over a tenth of a second

C'mon Tom, allow the FWD cars the benefit of the lighter overall weight. They are riding on the same chassis, the same suspension and they are lighter. Of course they are faster, personal preference or not.

Joe

I understand that, but when it comes down to it... I am not talking baout straight line performance. The AWD model out handles the FWD on a regular basis if both are in stock form. Granted it may be lighter.... but in the rear, where there is already an irregularly disproportioned weight, and thus making it even more nose heavy. I am not insulting but if you are going to post numbers that just compare straight line testing... Well, you still live an a 2d world

Tom

svxistentialist · #42 12-31-2007, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhopp77

I also have both FWD and AWD. As to overall driving, I much prefer the AWD. However, my FWD is definitely faster in all respects (and it has the most miles of all of them). I live in the wide open spaces with higher speed limits and fewer blue lighters--do I need to say more. The FWD takes the curves great--the AWD is just better. Yes, there is torque steer on the FWD--but not terribly bad.

I could care less about the light to light speed as this car was never designed to be a dragster. The lower gear ratios are a waste of money to me unless you just needed to replace the tranny and that was the cheapest option.

And actually if you put leather seats in the FWD there is very little difference in the accoutrements. I have everything in mine except for ABS brakes (the lack of which lightens the car by several pounds) and the suede trim. Of course, the leather seats and some other things were not stock for the car.

Oh, yes, I haven't noticed anyone mention the increased head space in the cars without sunroofs.

I also, do not accept the test figures as cold hard facts as there is a very high probability that the test standards and or vehicle equipment varied from year to year. They are just good "marks on the wall" for general performance data.

Just my .02.

Lee

That's an interesting observation Lee. I did not know you had both, thanks for letting us know how they drive.

One of the cars I have is JDM, and it is what I think of as poverty spec [S40 11]. It does not have cruise, does not have abs, and has lightweight cloth seats that are not electric.

It DOES have a dinger of a really good engine, and of course the Japanese VTD gearbox.

I was thinking I would sell it, but it might actually be interesting to change to a 4.44 final drive, and see if in fact it could be a "sleeper" SVX, one that could move along and handle a good deal quicker than most.