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#46
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Re: how bad are some of those leading our country ?
By making it mandatory to have health care (or pay an annual fine for NO COVERAGE) they are going to drive the premium up, and at the same time, make the health care we receive lose quality. ER rooms are going to be filled making the waits longer. Doctors offices are going to be making appointments at dates twice as far in the future as they are now, and will most likely charge more for their services, since "it is the companies that pay".
The long and short of it is we all pay in the end. I just want to pay for myself and my family ("family" could be employees, kids, spouses, etc.). I believe this was already said, but look at what happened to automotive insurance when it was made mandatory. The same thing will happen here. And what is constitutional about making someone pay $750 because they never go to the doctor and don't feel the need to have health care? It is not the governments place to do this, whether you think it is a good idea or not.
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Cam '92 Ls-L Dark Teal 11:1 CR ECUTUNE pistons ECUTUNE .256 duration intake/exhaust cams ECUTUNE STAGE 2AV1 ECU Z32 MAF/SR20DET injectors Balanced & Blueprinted |
#47
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Re: how bad are some of those leading our country ?
First off, let me clarify. I often play Devil's Advocate in these political threads just to promote the conversation and explore all of the possibilities. I'm as pissed as everyone about "Obamacare" and consider it an abject failure for our optimistic president. The idea of a "Healthcare Mandate" was a big reason for me NOT voting for Obama. No private firms should have the power to tax the public. I hate the auto-insurance mandate, but if I really felt that strongly about it I could opt not to drive. We can not trust corporations to act in our best interest when we have no option to take our business elsewhere.
That said, let me speak for a moment about "entitlement." I've never had health insurance in my entire life. Every medical expense has been payed for with cash, and when I couldn't afford to see a doctor I didn't get to see one. I've got cavities and wisdom teeth that I was told 10 years ago needed immediate attention, but until I stumble on a sack of cash they can wait. I've also never held a credit card in my name, and my only debt is for my education (something I've come to regret). The way I see it; if you can't afford something then you can't have it. Currently Americans seem entitled to a lot more than they can afford on the basis of the "American Dream". People bought houses they can't afford, and it brought down the housing market. People bought cars they can't afford and it brought down the auto industry. People are currently buying health care that they can't afford. All three of these industries will happily provide you with something you can't afford, but in the long run it'll cost you and the economy a lot more than it's worth. Perhaps our nation will never return to it's opulent past and we'll have to learn to live within our means as a society. Or maybe we'll keep on living like it's 1997 and the world is our oyster, but if that's the case we'll need some mighty big loans and have to start printing a lot more money. All I know is that if I ever get a serious injury, it'd better kill me.
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'92 LS-L "Bandit" #362 formerly dark teal, repainted by prev owner Mods: ECUTune 2v7f, Earthworm bushings, Pioneer DVD/Bluetooth phone, Infinity Reference all around, tint, 17" wheels, custom seat belt computer, velcro visor Buying parts is like car payments. Someday she'll be all mine. Last edited by K_Dub; 08-10-2010 at 04:49 PM. |
#48
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Re: how bad are some of those leading our country ?
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
#49
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Re: how bad are some of those leading our country ?
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Very well spoken, but I am sure the post referred to, was definitive and there was no meaning between the lines. You are being too kind. I know exactly what you are talking about when referring to collusion as a means of eliminating competition. In this country we have a Commerce Commission, and laws to prevent this unethical practice. Cheers, Trevor.
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
#50
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Re: how bad are some of those leading our country ?
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Cam '92 Ls-L Dark Teal 11:1 CR ECUTUNE pistons ECUTUNE .256 duration intake/exhaust cams ECUTUNE STAGE 2AV1 ECU Z32 MAF/SR20DET injectors Balanced & Blueprinted |
#51
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Re: how bad are some of those leading our country ?
If so, it can only be the fault of all the silly buggers who vote.
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
#52
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Re: how bad are some of those leading our country ?
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"How bad are some of those leading our country?" I'd ask "Who's really leading our country? The voters or the corporations?"
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'92 LS-L "Bandit" #362 formerly dark teal, repainted by prev owner Mods: ECUTune 2v7f, Earthworm bushings, Pioneer DVD/Bluetooth phone, Infinity Reference all around, tint, 17" wheels, custom seat belt computer, velcro visor Buying parts is like car payments. Someday she'll be all mine. |
#53
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Re: how bad are some of those leading our country ?
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Our political system has many influences. We The People (the bosses per the constitution) are low on the totem pole. Corporations, unions & special interest groups hold the high ground. The Dems in DC no longer listen to We The People. The lame stream media is in the tank with The One. I believe the Messiah has us headed for single payer Federal controlled health care like Canada & the UK. Can you say rationing? Followed by death panels for us geezers. The winners of our elections are determined by those that count the votes. November 2nd, a very important day.
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LS-L 92 black top silver bullet-Turned into a 2005 Jeep TJ Unlimited 2012 Outback 3.6R Limited! |
#54
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Federal health care or not, premium health insurance will still be available for those who don't like waiting in line.
The people counting the votes are not as vital to the corruption machine as the people pushing the propaganda and funding idiots like Glenn Beck who proselytize easily mislead people into believing outlandish things whom end up voting for resolutions to matters they believe in without actually understanding. Just off the top of my head Prop 8 is a good example of that. Clearly a violation of Constitutional rights but fundies and the innocently ignorant voted to pass it likely due to the influence of heavy financial/media backing of propaganda, and no it's not totally the Mormons fault. Luckily there are honest people up there who are interested in things like equality, fairness, and other "socialist" ideals that allow multi-class free-market capitalism to work.
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"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." '92 Dark Teal SVX LS-L, >146,000m 3 pedals, 5 speeds., restoration underway. 2012 Honda Insight, slow but cute. |
#55
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Re: how bad are some of those leading our country ?
"socialist" ideals that allow multi-class free-market capitalism to work.
How does that work? Socialist ideals (justice) is why free market capitalism is not doing very well. We are being Cloward & Piven-ed big time
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LS-L 92 black top silver bullet-Turned into a 2005 Jeep TJ Unlimited 2012 Outback 3.6R Limited! |
#56
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This is just my armchair-economist opinion but I think a true free-market in the sense that the market can do what it wants without regulation to protect the working-class will lead to a sort of tyrannical corporate-fascist oligarchy. I know that word "fascist" gets thrown around a lot but bear in mind the corporation, while important, is not necessarily the "end result" of civilized progress. That I believe is true liberty which means the needs of the people need to come before the needs of the money.
Under a market that does not appeal to the people the only way the system can survive is if it bleeds the people which is contrary to the concept of liberty, conversely a people-friendly system can be prosperous for all parties involved, which is fair. There are a few reasons why free-market Capitalism may not be doing as well as it should; greed, "moral" fundies, uneducated poor and young. I only expect the Corporations to keep their greed in check [as a prerequisite for fair success], but I think for them to expect that people will educate themselves and protect civil rights in the face of personal doctrines is naive, and I think they know this which may be why advertising works as effectively as it does. If the market is to succeed, the money needs to get out of the hands of the wealthy and into the working class, but too many people consider liquid wealth as the best yard stick with which to measure their value as a person. The contests to become the world's richest and most notable makes for a lot of waste and self-centered behaviour. I'm fine with the rich being rich, they've earned it, but we all know the cliches about wealth and power. The corporations have a responsibility to use their resources for the betterment of the people because after all, it's not like they just got rich on their own out of thin air.
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"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." '92 Dark Teal SVX LS-L, >146,000m 3 pedals, 5 speeds., restoration underway. 2012 Honda Insight, slow but cute. Last edited by NikFu S.; 08-31-2010 at 02:35 PM. |
#57
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Re: how bad are some of those leading our country ?
NikFu S.
"That I believe is true liberty which means the needs of the people need to come before the needs of the money. Under a market that does not appeal to the people the only way the system can survive is if it bleeds the people which is contrary to the concept of liberty, conversely a people-friendly system can be prosperous for all parties involved, which is fair." Are you describing Social Justice?
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LS-L 92 black top silver bullet-Turned into a 2005 Jeep TJ Unlimited 2012 Outback 3.6R Limited! |
#58
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That may be a bit specific as I might not agree with some of the finer details of the theory, but sure, why not.
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"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." '92 Dark Teal SVX LS-L, >146,000m 3 pedals, 5 speeds., restoration underway. 2012 Honda Insight, slow but cute. |
#59
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Re: how bad are some of those leading our country ?
"I believe the Messiah has us headed for single payer Federal controlled health care like Canada & the UK. Can you say rationing? Followed by death panels for us geezers."
You wish you had health care as good as Canada's. I suggest you try opening your mind. Maybe go on a vacation to Canada or Europe and get a taste of how other people in this world manage to survive with full health care.
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94 SVX LSI 2001 LegacyGT (daughter's ride now) 2005 Legacy outback XT (wife's car) all stock and likely staying that way for now 1981 Datsun 280zxturbo summer toy |
#60
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Re: how bad are some of those leading our country ?
So we just passed a Health Care Law in order to know what is in it; written by a committee whose chairman says he didn’t understand it; passed by a congress that didn’t read it and exempts themselves from it; Signed by a hypocritical-president who is a smoker; from funding administered by a treasury chief who didn’t pay his taxes; all to be overseen by a sergeon general who by military standards is obese; all to be financed by a country that is broke.
from: http://www.ihatethemedia.com/ed-schu...w-ratings-down
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My mom will forever live in me and never be forgotten, one day Ill see her again CLICK the LINK below to Visit the SVX Store: http://www.planetsvx.com http://www.motorsportwarehouse.com/svx/sig2.jpg Cars in the garage: 92 Toyota Soarer Single Turbo JDM RHD 70 Boss 302 Mustang 39k original miles 97 SVX Lsi 92 Liquid Silver Murano-ized (1st of its kind) 71 Cougar Xr7 Conv 351c 4v 4spd 69 SS Camaro 350 71 Nissan RHD Fairlady Z 70 Stang Fastback 70 Amc AMX 390 71 240z 89 Conquest TSi w/ 5.0 v8 swap 84 Mustang GT Turbo conv "good, if it bleeds, we can kill it ....." |
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