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#721
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would your stage 3 cost the same as a new stage 2?
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#722
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Tom I am sure we can alter the standard knock sensor, I will try this week end with a scope and see if putting a felt washer under it changes the signal strength. By the way do you have any spare knock sensors? reason is you may be able to bolt them onto the engine at a easyier location and if the felt washer works you could con the ECU that the knock is less then it is.
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
#723
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Quote:
I do agree that with lowered compression, say 8.5 to 1 for instance, under normal circumstances you would not expect to be getting a lot of detonation at 9 lbs. Therefore if the ECU is hearing knocks it is very likely they are spurious, mechanically induced by the blower installation, and not actual detonation. If this is the case, and I think it's highly likely, then what you have is an engine that has a highly sensitive system for knock detection that was designed to "listen" for knock on a N/A block that is now too sensitive to have a blower bolted onto the metal. So it is the knock detection that needs to be engineered to suit the new engine, pure and simple. It wouldn't be a "proof" according to Trevor's rigorous criteria, but I am willing to postulate that Tom Krynock's centrifugal blower does not give these problems either at 9 lbs or at 12 lbs. The pump is isolated from the block. Did anybody ever think of asking the Lexus 200 people if they have met this problem, and if so what is their solution? [they use a blower bolted to the side of a straight 6]. Another application comes to mind is the Jaguar V8 XJR with the Eaton in the V. You would expect they may have had the same problem. Anybody know where their knock sensors are sited, and what type they are? Joe
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Black Betty [Bam a Lam!] '93 UK spec, still languishing Betty Jersey Girl Silver '92 UK [Channel Isles] 40K Jersey Girl @ Mersea Candy Purple Honda Blackbird Plum Dangerous White X2 RVR Mitsubishi 1800GDI. Vantastic 40,000 miles Jersey Girl |
#724
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My next upgrade is to give it a water/methanol mix. I will be injecting before the blower because the vapour driving through will cool the charge which is the main function sought, but also increase the sealing effect across the rotors. Now I have no guarantee at this moment that the ECU will not pull timing at 9 lbs, like it does on Tom's engine. I'm just hoping if it's not doing it at 6 [for noise reasons] then it won't at 9. At any rate I will expect that the cooling will defeat the real detonation and allow reasonable power, if decent advanced timing can be retained. I would consider your 1600 blower a way better machine than my Eaton. With good cooling, your blower at 12 lbs should deliver about 380 crank from the EG33. This is 150 hp over standard tune and is a seriously respectable figure. Are your expectations set a little high? Joe
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Black Betty [Bam a Lam!] '93 UK spec, still languishing Betty Jersey Girl Silver '92 UK [Channel Isles] 40K Jersey Girl @ Mersea Candy Purple Honda Blackbird Plum Dangerous White X2 RVR Mitsubishi 1800GDI. Vantastic 40,000 miles Jersey Girl |
#725
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I do have spare sensors and I will be working on relocating to try and isolate the noise but yet still allow them to function... We will see
Tom |
#726
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If stage 2 costs 6 grand... I guess... That is my price for the whole kit
Tom |
#727
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Tom do you have access to a scope so can measure the current reading and then the possiable new one after you relocate them?
Tony
__________________
1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
#728
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no I do not but I should be able to monitor their output by using my select monitor interface.
Tom |
#729
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Quote:
Tom |
#730
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Tom see how you go, I have the kit as well and am interested to sort these issues out so if you want I am happy to run some expermients on the week end to so how we reduce the senseativie. Just let me know if I can help.
Tony
__________________
1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
#731
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The fact that my timing is not being pulled does not necessarily mean that the physical noise is not happening. We stripped two engines and found movement in the crank in each. Not audible, but certainly there. In the case of my JDM blown car, it may be working because it has a smooth and sweet engine causing no noise [72K miles] or it could also be helped by the fact that the JDM ECU is tuned for higher quality petrol, and probably uses a fuel map that does not pull timing so aggressively. Joe
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Black Betty [Bam a Lam!] '93 UK spec, still languishing Betty Jersey Girl Silver '92 UK [Channel Isles] 40K Jersey Girl @ Mersea Candy Purple Honda Blackbird Plum Dangerous White X2 RVR Mitsubishi 1800GDI. Vantastic 40,000 miles Jersey Girl |
#732
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Joe have a look at Phil"s maps and you will see the JDM cars have a lot higher Knock sensor map. Don't know why, this may sound stupid but the level based on the knock sensor output at which the engine is damaged is the same no matter what the fuel is so they all should have the same map.
Tony
__________________
1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
#733
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I understand the want to know what is happening... I really want to know. i understand that it is pulling timing. i also understand that even with the relatively hot intake charge and my relative high AFR I should not be reaching "knock" conditions so I am leaning more and more to the sense of the knock sensors picking up noise since they are right next to the blower case. That being said, without a scope to compare the motor w/ and w/o the blower I cannot be certain but when I have time to myself I will be looking further into it. Esp. since there is no real immediate interest in someone buying my kit either.
Tom |
#734
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Tom I hope you decide to stick with it my feeling is that the real issues that have challanged us with these engines are getting sorted out and the power potential is just being discovered. I am happy to see what I can find out.
One question for you is how can we measure if timing is being pulled? Tony
__________________
1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
#735
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Quote:
Joe
__________________
Black Betty [Bam a Lam!] '93 UK spec, still languishing Betty Jersey Girl Silver '92 UK [Channel Isles] 40K Jersey Girl @ Mersea Candy Purple Honda Blackbird Plum Dangerous White X2 RVR Mitsubishi 1800GDI. Vantastic 40,000 miles Jersey Girl |
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