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#61
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it would have to be heavily modded.....
like one of the cars off the "Fast and the Furious". You have to maintain the same level of mods is all i am trying to say.
For example: say you have an eclipse. you add a really nice wings west body kit, two and a half inch cat-back exhaust and a three inch exhaust pipe, new racing heart wheels, and even custom interior. if you dont at least lower this car it is going to look horrible, inspite of all your mods. it will look like something is missing, it will just be incomplete. it will ride to high and throw off the entire look you were after. anyway that is how i feel when i look at a car with a huge wing and a set of custom wheels, it just looks incomplete to me. let me clarify something. it the custom wheels are the same size a stock then the car is fine. it only looks weird when bigger wheels are put on.
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1994 SVX, true dual Magnaflow exhaust, K&N filter, 17" Enkei RS6 wheels, Bridgestone Potenza RE730 225/45/17 rubber, zinc plated cross-drilled rotors with yellow painted brake calipers. B&M tranny cooler rated at 19,000 GVW. GC springs and Koni strut inserts installed and the car is lowered two inches all the way around!! "Too much fun to drive!" |
#62
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Re: you guessed it eddy....
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Pull my finger! |
#63
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This is going to be my final post on this subject. I've pointed to several explanations, I've cited articles, I've cited engineers, I've plead my case.
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, it is now up for you to decide. I offer my final evidence -- Exhibit Z. The following is an e-mail I sent to a tech (Todd Erickson), the tech's response and a brief bio on the tech who answered my question. There will, no doubt, be a response to this, my final response but, I will try, with all my might to ignore it. From this point, I leave it to you to draw your own conclusion. MY E-MAIL: I got your e-mail address from the wrx.org site. I hope you don't mind my bothering you. I've been embroiled in something of a "debate" over something called "passive rear wheel steering" which is mentioned in much Subaru literature, and also in the Road and Track Guide to the New SVX (Oh, I own a '92 Subaru SVX) and a terminology widely used on other cars (Citroen, Peugeot, Porsche and others). This, of course, is not the "active" all wheel steering available on the Japanese models, but more the "passive" toe-in, toe-out, under load in the vein of the Weissach Axle developed for Porsche in the '70's. Could you possibly shed some light on this for me. Does the effect exist in fact? In theory? Your response would be appreciated. Randy Johnson TODD'S RESPONSE: Yes it does. Think of rear suspension side loads and bushing compliance. When cornering hard the side load on the 2 lateral links is a lot. The bushings on the front (closest to the front of the car) lateral link are softer than the one towards the rear, thus that corner of the suspension toes in slightly. Does that make since? Todd TODD'S BIO: Todd Erickson is an IDENTIFIX Asian specialist. Erickson is an Accredited Automotive Manager (AAM) with 16 years of diagnostic experience. He is a certified Subaru senior master technician, as well as ASE master certified, L1 and alternate fuels. If anyone would like, I also have a link to Todd's full resume.
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Randy Johnson 3rd Registered Member 02-21-2001 First Member to Reach 10,000 Posts First to arrive at the very first Reading Meet Subaru Ambassador 1992 SVX PPG Pace Car Replica 110+k 1993 White Impreza L 240+K miles 2001 Legacy Outback Limited Sedan 250+K miles 2013 Deep Indigo Pearl Legacy 3.6R 49+K miles "Reading is my favorite Holiday" Mike Davis -- at Reading VI Last edited by Aredubjay; 07-11-2001 at 12:16 PM. |
#64
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that is all i need to hear.
eddy if that does not convince you then nothing will. this guy is just as accredited as you and his answer speaks for itself.
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1994 SVX, true dual Magnaflow exhaust, K&N filter, 17" Enkei RS6 wheels, Bridgestone Potenza RE730 225/45/17 rubber, zinc plated cross-drilled rotors with yellow painted brake calipers. B&M tranny cooler rated at 19,000 GVW. GC springs and Koni strut inserts installed and the car is lowered two inches all the way around!! "Too much fun to drive!" |
#65
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Quote:
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Pull my finger! |
#66
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Re: that is all i need to hear.
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And once again, hands held high! If you guys need to have it, then you do. I don't, I understand steering, bushings and bearings reacting to outside forces is not steering to *me*.
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Pull my finger! Last edited by eddycat2000; 07-11-2001 at 01:12 PM. |
#67
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I've tried my best to stay out of this debate since it first reared its ugly head, but it needs to be shot dead & buried forever, so here's my bucks worth.
If I'm parked, or driving at 120 mph & turn the steering wheel & the front wheels turn in the direction that I've pointed the car AND the rear wheels change angle DUE TO MY TURNING THE STEERING WHEEL, then I'd say I got 4WS. Anything else that effects the rear wheels besides my turning the steering wheel AIN'T steering, it's reaction to other things. If I hit a curb at 30 mph, & the car's direction is altered, do I now have CURB steering? IF we still want to SAY that the camber, caster etc. change due to road conditions & vehicle direction change, & that's 4WS, then the arguement will never cease. I say toMAHto, you say toMAYto, & it's still a red, squishy thing to be hurled at each other when civil debates become boring. Tsu.
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Good s**t happened. 69 was worth the wait. '92 stock semi-pristine ebony - 160K '96 Grand Caravan - 240K '01 Miata SE - 79K '07 Chrysler Pacifica - 60k - future money pit. |
#68
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you guys still dont understand.....
randy, myself, and mr. pockets are NOT saying the SVX has AWS. we are saying that it does have some type of engineered/passive toe-in toe-out suspension system that enables the car to take curves better faster. this system allows the car to steer better to corner better under load (high speed) cornering. again we all agree that the SVX in the US does not have any form of ACTIVE AWS. but to deny that engineers designed the rear suspension to toe-in and out, to aid steering into corners is just ridiculous. screw the literature put out by road and track or some dumb manual, read some of the websites randy posted and try to figure out that what we are talking about has nothing to do with the AWS system available in the Japanese SVX or any other active AWS system.
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1994 SVX, true dual Magnaflow exhaust, K&N filter, 17" Enkei RS6 wheels, Bridgestone Potenza RE730 225/45/17 rubber, zinc plated cross-drilled rotors with yellow painted brake calipers. B&M tranny cooler rated at 19,000 GVW. GC springs and Koni strut inserts installed and the car is lowered two inches all the way around!! "Too much fun to drive!" |
#69
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Thank you Ron! I had totally spaced that you can drive a car that is completely out of whack by toe spec and it will drive straight down the road, but the steering wheel will be off center and the tires will wear prematurely. Damn do I feel like a doofus now! I could have ended this whole thread easily just explaining that. DOH!
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Pull my finger! |
#70
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Guy, I assume that Randy has stopped on this topic. Perry, I assume has put a stop to this as well. So, can I sum it up then? Ok. I love argements mind you but this one just tops anything I have ever engaged on.
We are arguing on the terminology -- on how a wheel turns due to an external force. Some call it passive turning, others call it slight moment due to design, and even others can claim that it's a loose end. The fact at the end of the day is... the wheels at the back turns slightly, in the opposite direction of the wheels at the front. Call it passive turning, or movement due to pressure. It turns right? To make it simple, why don't we dub this action with a name we can all agree on -- without the word passive. How about "lateral toe movement" for the lack of better word? It's the same thing right? So, all SVX comes with LTM then. My 2 cents worth of input into the discussion.
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Lwin M. Maung (Member # 147) Current SVX: • NONE Previous SVXes: •1994 LE Barcelona Red 107k • 1992 LS-L Pearl White 143k • 1994 LSi Bordeaux Pearl 220k • 1992 LS-L Ebony Pearl 184k • 1992 LS-L Liquid Silver 145k • 1992 LS-L Liquid Silver 102k • 1992 LS-L Ebony Pearl 123k Other current cars:•2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Black If at first you don't succeed, CHEAT!
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#71
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Make a note
Lets see...I have my little note pad around here somewhere...oh yeah, here it is....lets see...(flip-flip) OK...."Things NOT to bring up at the next meet" ......a n y t h i n g....a b o u t....t h e....r e a r....e n d....t r y i n g .....t o.....s t e e r.....i t s e l f. There, that should help keep my head attached during our next get-together. I filed it right underneath "Kentucky vs. Tennessee vs. Scotland".... Don
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Cats: Clio, Inky, Sheba, Sparky, Rocky, Cali, Scooter 3 cars: 02 SVT Focus, 2012 Versa...2015 Fiat 500 currently SVX-less 1 wife ("She, who must be obeyed..") "One advantage of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries" |
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