What should we do with Bush?

[WGJ]

"Let's set the record straight AGAIN. Kerry ONLY spent four repeat FOUR months in Vietnam."
Lee

Why is that Republicans spent $40 million of the tax payers money trying to nail Clinton for anything (and failed), ate one of their own in N. Carolina (McCain), attacked Kerry's integrity and threw him under the Swift (propaganda)boat and yet seem to have no problem with Bush's extended Absence Without Leave in Alabama or wherever the hell he was?
Even if it is the case that Kerry was ONLY in Viet Nam for 4 months...THAT'S FOUR MONTHS LONGER THAN BUSH! And he did get shot at, didn't he?
Rather hypocritical, don't you think?
WGJ

[WGJ]

Lee,
"Robert, you are so very wrong. It was the peace movement that gave the NVA something to continue fighting for. Even though they were militarily defeated they knew that all they had to do was to continue the fight and they would win---SOLELY BECAUSE OF THE PEACE MOVEMENT."

SORRY BUT THAT'S A LOAD OF BULL...

Ho Chi Minh returned to Viet Nam in 1941 after 30 yrs in exile. When his country was arbitrarily returned to the French as a colony he declared himself president of the Democratic Republic of Viet Nam and tried to get Truman's support.
The Viet Nam war started in 1945 with the arrival of 35,000 French troops.
Do you really think that the Viet Minh were going to ever stop trying to get their country back? Can you name a single example of guerrilla's being totally subjugated in their own country? The First Indochina War lasted eight years.
We first got involved in Vietnam in 1950! We'd subsidized the French to the tune of 3 BILLION by 1954. Dien Bien Phu was a parable we failed to listen to. The foremost military strategist of the 20th century, Gen. Douglas MacArthur told us NOT to get involved in a land war in Asia. We made our first direct shipment of military aide in '55.
Yeah, we won the battles but we would never win the war in the traditional sense because the guys like Minh and Giap would never give up trying to get their country back. If the roles were reversed, would you?
Trying to blame anti war protestors for the outcome of Vietnam is completely irrational.

WGJ

He only employs his passion who can make no use of his reason.
Cicero

Umm.....guys..... errr.....if you wouldn't mind... could you maybe start a Vietnam War Discussion thread?

(staying out of this one for many, many reasons)

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by Bipa

Hmm.... you may be right. But in that case, I'd also say that a 62 - 36 vote in the Senate is also a pretty overwhelming approval and endorsement. The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2006 (S.2611) passed on 5/25/2006 with those numbers in the Senate, so it must also be a good thing, eh?

http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:S.2611:

As you well know there is no connection between the two on our debate and in addition to that there is a distinct difference in the end result.

The Hayden endorsement was a FINAL vote resulting in the end result of his confirmation.

The Immigration Bill is the Senate position (however political and misguided), but it was also passed on the full realization that the end product is going to be someplace between what was passed in the House and what was included in it. I suspect and definitely hope that the end result is much closer to the House version. It is finesse politics at its best. Senators bowing to both sides. In conference they can agree to the House version which would satisfy one side and yet point their finger at their vote on the Senate version to appease the other side. But of course you know that, but just wanted to throw in a red herring as WGJ would say to smoke the foreign call wiretapping issue.

Lee

[lhopp77]

Bipa, since I have much better things to do than constantly post on here, I have decided not to respond to any of your comments unless you can actually indicate to us that you are a voting American citizen. Otherwise, you are just another foreigner sticking her nose in our internal affairs. Doing something that impacts your country or the entire world might be one consideration, but purely our internal affairs should be of no concern to you unless you are an American citizen that plans to come back to live in this country. I am sure that the liberals on here have appreciated you because you do the research to support their position even when not entirely valid.

You just obviously have much more time to research than I do and I have better things to do. Now of course if you say something that I agree with, I will probably say, "AMEN".

I suspect that IF you are an American citizen, you will come back to this country to live in the future. It is definitely the best country in the world (even with the Electrophils and WGJs-) and has much lower taxes than the rest of the developed countries. That statement is not meant to slight other good countries, but is a simple statement in fact.

Have a nice day.

Lee

Why, Lee... I'm not sure how to respond. Sounds to me like I hear the bugles sounding "retreat". Say it ain't so!

[lhopp77]

Of course you know better than that. I just have better things to do than argue with foreigners. If you vote US, then it is worth it sometimes. Just like the pic you posted--has no application if you are just a foreigner. So, either admit you are a US voter or forever silence from me except a possible amen now and again.

Lee

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Of course you know better than that. I just have better things to do than argue with foreigners. If you vote US, then it is worth it sometimes. Just like the pic you posted--has no application if you are just a foreigner. So, either admit you are a US voter or forever silence from me except a possible amen now and again.

Lee

You gotta be kidding me. Is this more of your police state mentality showing through?

If Bipa shows up at the table with something good to eat, it doesn't matter which restaurant she just came from.

Besides, she's a US citizen in the closet anyway. She just won't admit it.

[WGJ]

It's the sound of your inner child/boy soldier saying "I can't take this ass whippin' anymore." So you've taken the wimp way out. You rarely if ever admit you might be wrong and you can't keep up with the never ending flatulence of a corrupt Republican administration. You've become so desperate you've resulted to "Arguing from authority", citing your 5 yrs. in the 'Nam. Unfortunately that thinly disguised attempt at intimidation won't work. You're done in by the Internet and near unlimited access to data, accurate data. As a result, your untenable position of support for Bush puts you in the position of having to defend a President who only today was referred to in today's paper by a Princeton history professor as a very viable "contender for the worst President in history."
Bipa's citizenship is irrelevant. Besides, you've used a a similar variation with me, the ever so condescending "Your position has no merit so I won't bother to respond." When you do respond, your responses to Bipa's or Electrophil's or my positions don't hold up to scrutiny. You continue to try to defend the indefensible. Either stop resorting to the endless array of sophistry and BS and use factual data to respond, or withdraw, do your homework and return with facts or continue to work on the lawn. If you decide to do your homework, YOUR HOMEWORK HASN'T CHANGED:

SHOW US ONE THING BUSH HAS DONE RIGHT!
WGJ

On a more personal note, because it is Memorial Day, thank you for your military service. Visited my father's grave at Fort Rosecrans, he would have been 86 today. I will leave you with this thought:

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatreds.
You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away a man's initiative and independence.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.

William J. H. Boetcker, 1916 (often attributed to Lincoln)

[Noir]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Bipa, since I have much better things to do than constantly post on here, I have decided not to respond to any of your comments unless you can actually indicate to us that you are a voting American citizen. Otherwise, you are just another foreigner sticking her nose in our internal affairs. Doing something that impacts your country or the entire world might be one consideration, but purely our internal affairs should be of no concern to you unless you are an American citizen that plans to come back to live in this country. I am sure that the liberals on here have appreciated you because you do the research to support their position even when not entirely valid.

Wow. There's so much meaning in those quick comments. Lee, I wish you were the man that handled our foreign affairs.

Originally Posted by lhopp77

I suspect that IF you are an American citizen, you will come back to this country to live in the future. It is definitely the best country in the world (even with the Electrophils and WGJs-) and has much lower taxes than the rest of the developed countries. That statement is not meant to slight other good countries, but is a simple statement in fact.

Have a nice day.

Lee

Lee, do you have some figures to support that claim? Just curious.

[Electrophil]

Poor Lee couldn't stand the heat. He's probably caught that Bush virus of running for the hills.

[Electrophil]

By the way, the vote has crawled up to 21 kicking the idiot, and 11 kissing him. That's about right with the polls.

Democrats are going to clean house. I just hope they can fix all of this before we lose hope in them. There's a whole crock pot of vittles to fix.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Electrophil

Democrats are going to clean house. I just hope they can fix all of this before we lose hope in them. There's a whole crock pot of vittles to fix.

hahahahaha.......<rests>.....hahahaha...

riight.

BTW, here's the photo before GOP photoshopped it
If even the Grinch can be turned around, then there's hope yet

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by Noir

Lee, do you have some figures to support that claim? Just curious.

Unfortunately, I do not have a handy single reference site or figures to support this statement. The total tax picture is so complex that I am unable to find a single source. However, you can search various sites and it will definitely support my statement. Taxes are made up of so many different elements and are treated differently by different countrys.

It is quite easy to find a comparison of the "marginal tax" which is the rate for the last dollar earned or really the maximum tax rate. But this may apply for everything over say $20K for Mexico and $300K for the US or vice versu.
It did play a role in Bush's tax cuts and the TRUE impact of this can be seen in this paper. The paper also shows the marginal rates by country.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/M...lTaxRates.html

If you read that carefully, you will see the benefit of the Bush cuts.

I can find comparison of corporate tax rates and tax burden as a percent of GDP. The US has some of the highest corporate tax rates which of course is one of the reason for movement of jobs and companies overseas. It has some of the lowest total taxes as compared to GDP with Sweden the highest followed by Western Europe.

Lee