Extremely bad problem that car can't self diagnose

AUSVX · #1 01-04-2009, 02:52 PM

Hey everyone.
So I have had my car nearly a year, and I had this problem 3 times since i've had the car.

Here's the problem, when i start the car when the car is completely cold after about 5mins of driving while the engine is still cold, I might be driving the car up a hill and it feels like half the engine shuts down or a feeling like it has jumped a tooth on the timing, so I quickly pull over, it feels as though it idles fine but as soon as you press the gas it sputters and shakes, shut the car off wait a few moments, start the car up and shut it off a couple of times and the car is completely back to normal.
Another time from cold, I waited until the temp gauge needle had completely risen and car had warmed up and only then I started driving the car hard, same thing happens and it makes the car shake so i shut it off and start it up a couple of times.

Does anyone understand this, because I'm lost. I'm doing the cam seals today and I wanna fix this while the car is apart. My car isn't modified in anyway, I'm not getting any codes and I'm baffled, I can't work out whether it's mechanical or electrical and whether it's linked to another problem which is:
-When I start the car in the morning it's always completely fine except these problems i've described above
-When the car is completely warmed up and I shut the car off and start it up again it's also completely fine
-BUT when I shut the car off and come back between 2 and 5 hours later, I go to start the car and the engine just turns over and over and over, it feels like it's only JUST not starting up but keep holding for about 5 seconds and then starts up.
I have changed the CTS coolant temp sensor and gauge temp sensor about 5 months ago.

Thanks a lot, Jordan.

tiv0 · #2 01-04-2009, 03:21 PM

could gasoline type and gasoline level (less than half tank in cold temps.) have anything to do with this?

sorry im not offering 'help', ill let those more knowledgeable chime in

legacyau · #3 01-04-2009, 04:25 PM

I'm just guessing but maybe its the afm is dirty/faulty? opinions anyone?

oab_au · #4 01-04-2009, 04:38 PM

Cam or crank sensor?

Harvey.

1986nate · #5 01-04-2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oab_au

Cam or crank sensor?

Harvey.

I would check these. I know someone else's car wouldn't start at all because of a bad crank sensor. If it has a bad connection or is starting to go, that might explain the intermittency of the problem.

kwren · #6 01-05-2009, 12:53 AM

could be a bad cam sprocket as well.

Ill bet it is in that neighborhood! Had one exactly like that.

Dealer kept it 6 weeks and a day, finally made up a $2200.00 story and I got it home and fixed it!
(we prey a lot)
Hope it works out for you.
Keith

kwren · #7 01-05-2009, 12:57 AM

could be a bad cam sprocket as well. My cam shaft rusted out on the end and slipped so in essence it was out of time with the timing belt aligned as it should have been.

Not an easy thing to find.

Ill bet it is in that neighborhood! Had one exactly like that.

Dealer kept it 6 weeks and a day, kept messing around with till they blew a head gasket. They finally made up a $2200.00 story and I got it home, found the problem and fixed it!
(we prey a lot)
I wouldn't drive it till I got it worked out. You can ruin the engine.

Hope it works out for you.
Keith

legacyau · #8 01-05-2009, 05:59 AM

so it idles ok and then gets fussy when you take off? thats what makes me think its something that has variable input to the ecu that changes when you acellerate like the afm or the tps, maybe its your ferrite bead thingy in the ecu? mine has a hesitation first thing in the morning only while cold, i'm going to check if mine has had the crush mod done.

svxistentialist · #9 01-05-2009, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUSVX

Hey everyone.
So I have had my car nearly a year, and I had this problem 3 times since i've had the car.

Here's the problem, when i start the car when the car is completely cold after about 5mins of driving while the engine is still cold, I might be driving the car up a hill and it feels like half the engine shuts down or a feeling like it has jumped a tooth on the timing, so I quickly pull over, it feels as though it idles fine but as soon as you press the gas it sputters and shakes, shut the car off wait a few moments, start the car up and shut it off a couple of times and the car is completely back to normal.
Another time from cold, I waited until the temp gauge needle had completely risen and car had warmed up and only then I started driving the car hard, same thing happens and it makes the car shake so i shut it off and start it up a couple of times.

Does anyone understand this, because I'm lost. I'm doing the cam seals today and I wanna fix this while the car is apart. My car isn't modified in anyway, I'm not getting any codes and I'm baffled, I can't work out whether it's mechanical or electrical and whether it's linked to another problem which is:
-When I start the car in the morning it's always completely fine except these problems i've described above
-When the car is completely warmed up and I shut the car off and start it up again it's also completely fine
-BUT when I shut the car off and come back between 2 and 5 hours later, I go to start the car and the engine just turns over and over and over, it feels like it's only JUST not starting up but keep holding for about 5 seconds and then starts up.
I have changed the CTS coolant temp sensor and gauge temp sensor about 5 months ago.

Thanks a lot, Jordan.

Jordan

You should very carefully consider Harvey's reply and Keith's reply here, one of these can well be your solution.

In Keith's case he had a difficult-to-find mechanical problem with a cam sprocket. This knocked the timing out of kilter and caused the bad running.

What Harvey is suggesting is possible replacement of electronic sensors. If I was you, I'd probably check these out first. These are electronic devices. They can develop bad connection-bad signal faults that are much worse when cold, but that will "go away" when the sensor is warmed up.

Cam or crank sensor would be my first guess also. If they check out OK, then see if you may have Keith's problem on one of your cams.

Joe

kwren · #10 01-05-2009, 10:09 AM

What made Jordon and my problem so unique is the fact that the car started and ran great for a few minutes and then disaster would strike. Drive along and suddenly felt like half the engine fell off. Seems like the computer would sense the problem and put the car in "limp home" mode. At least that was the end result.

Diagnoses was so difficult because anything done to the car to try to "fix it" would produce a positive result... for about a mile of driving. A timing problem defied all logic because all the marks on the timing belt lined up.

I cannot stress enough the need to find the culprit and not keep trying to drive it.

Running it can hurt the engine... bad

Keith

kwren · #11 01-05-2009, 01:34 PM

You will need to remove the timing belt and loosen the bolts that hold the sprocket on the cam shaft to check this if Harvey's information does not get the results you need. The end of my camshaft rusted so bad where the key is supposed to hold it in place and it let the sprocket slip a ways on the shaft.

I ended up changing the cam shaft and the sprocket.

not too big a deal.

Keith

kwren · #12 01-05-2009, 08:27 PM

Jordan?

You got NO code on this problem??

Keith

AUSVX · #13 01-06-2009, 12:14 AM

Hey sorry for the late reply.

I completely understand what your saying Keith, how often was it happenning to you before you fixed it?

I remember a while back you posted pictures of the camshaft and sprocket in a thread you made except i can't find it. You took a picture of where it slipped out of the keyway or it made it's own groove in the metal? I'll have a look in your locker

Suprisingly no codes, I think both problems 1) about starting the car up and 2) about that feeling of half the engine shutting down or jumping a tooth, AREN'T related and both are separate problems but I hope they are and it's just a sensor. The reason why I say this is because once before I've disconnected the battery and made sure everything is reset and even left the battery disconnected over night once and reconnected everything the next day and drove the car BUT when I came to start the car after not driving it for about 2-6 hours (which is when the start up problem always occurs, the problem is a perfect pattern and happens everyday) it started fine but give it a week of driving and me coming to the car 2-6 hours later of not driving and it's back to it's old ways, the engine turns over and over and over for about 10 seconds and then starts.

Thanks for the massive reply guys, every problem I've ever had has been resolved through this website and I'm really grateful!!

Jordan.

kwren · #14 01-06-2009, 01:15 AM

The first time mine did that I was going up a slight grade and did the petal to the metal. When it happened, it scared the tar out of me. The loud weird noise and I thought for a second that the transmission was slipping. I quickly put that aside because in spite of the noise, the rpm was not high at all but I had a major loss of power.

It didn't happen again for maybe a month or so. but soon got worse and then began to happen every time when I would drive it about a mile. With hindsight, I can assume the sprocket had slipped some more and made it farther out of time.

I took it to a dealer because snow was coming... Unheated garage... have to rent a car to work on mine... Dealer was supposed to find out what was wrong for me while I drove a new Subaru loaner! Half of this plan worked.
The new Subaru loaner happened for a total of 6 weeks and one day. The dealer working out what my problem was never really happened.

To make a long story a little longer... after they checked with the factory the factory said it was the transmission!
That was great news... They had to order one and I am stuck with the new Subaru loaner!

That was the second time to contact the factory for them. The first time they said the 02 was bad. Of course, in spite of getting the 02 code, I knew better. I had already changed that when I got the code.

It was April 1st when they said the factory said the transmission was the reason 1/2 the engine fell off.

I seriously thought that it was an April fools joke the factory was playing on them. When the transmission arrived, they called and let me know I could pick up the car the next day! Got a bad news call the next day! The new transmission was bad. Diagnoses was simple... The car would start and run fine but in about a mile, acted like half the engine fell off! Had to be another bad transmission.

So... another week to get another transmission. It came in and more bad news... It was bad as well... same old story with the engine! Three transmissions later they had gotten tired of changing the transmissions and discovered a small hose cracked under the intake manifold. Order from the east coast... another week.
That of course didn't help it either but a week later they called with the news that a blown head gasket (2,200.00) was the problem. I took the loaner back and brought the car home.

Rented a loaner for a weekend and replaced cam shaft-sprocket etc

I am sure the continued running it at the dealer caused the head gasket to go because before there was no coolant loss... never. When I got it home the reservoir was overflowing from what they had "accomplished".
The 02 sensor was guaranteed... The transmission was still in warranty and my expense was the cam shaft, sprocket and gaskets.

I did have to do the head gasket a short time later because of that overflow water being pushed out to the reservoir but not being sucked back in. That was like maybe 4 ounces of coolant loss out of the radiator in 50 miles of freeway driving..

I am pretty easy going and I know they did their best. They really treated me nice and I appreciated their efforts! Was a great learning experience for me!

I really appreciate this form and all the great people that come together and help each other, in many cases, things we could never accomplish alone!

Hope your problem is accompanied by a solution and turns out great for you.

Keith