Looking into buying a full set of tools... opinions?

[drivemusicnow]

Well, I've finally decided mooching of the shop i used to work at isn't working anymore. So i'm looking into buying a full set of tools so that i can do all the work on my SVX, and eclipse when i start working on it.

I'm looking at craftsmen because of the price point, and "unlimited lifetime warranty" I was wondering where is the cutoff point of usefulness and pure number of tools? is it really useful to have 6 pt, and 12pt of all sockets? what do you guys suggest such that I buy this once, and don't have to worry about them?
I was looking at ~250 piece sets, but they even seem a little reduntant with certain parts. I can't spend more than 450$ on this, however i'd REALLY like it to be significantly less.
I may be getting a few air tools too. (think it's neccesary?? i do have access to an air compressor at school)

[mohrds]

I have never found a reason to have 12 point tools.

There are ways to mix & match to get a good deal.

Get your wrenches, socket wrenches, and torx tools from Sears
Get the impact sockets, hammers, pry bars, clamps from anyplace cheap.
If you are like me, plan to buy new screwdrivers every few years. Might as well get them from someplace cheap.

Good luck!

Doug

[Beav]

Sears is a good place to buy, but the best tip is to shop them online. I've found some screaming deals that way. I would be a bit shy about buying their gazillion-piece sets though, too many hex keys and hacksaw blades for my taste. For the most part you'll find the only 12 point sockets you'll need are 10, 12 and 13 mm., and that will be on rare occasion.

I don't enjoy the luxury of being able to buy so-so or cheap tools because I use them constantly. Now the casual user has many options. However I will warn you away from the bundled air tools you'll normally find at discount stores, especially Sam's, Wal-Mart, Costco, etc. Those air tool sets aren't worth the box they're sold in. Stick with a name brand like Ingersoll-Rand. That tool will last a lifetime and have enough power to not be a lifetime of "Why didn't I step up and buy something worth owning?" You'll also find that NAPA sells decent tools and you'll know they will be there when you need a replacement. And don't bother with Snap-On, MAC, Matco, et al. Even seasoned pros find their prices way over the top. $650+ for a 15 pc. wrench set?! Yeah, they're nice but they don't do anything - no moving parts. $43 avg. for a 10" long piece of metal? No way! (pssst...I used to be a tool dealer, in fact I'm wearing one of my old *** Tools shirts right now.)

[Landshark]

helpful tools:

torque wrench
strap wrenches
ratcheting wrenches (for hard-to-reach areas)
flex-shaft screwdriver
good set of sockets (and deep sockets)
magnetic pickup
"grabber" pickup tool (yeah, i drop stuff alot )
long handled needle nose pliers
and of couse, the BFH

[benebob]

Alan has some good suggestions there. Definately go for the Craftsman set. Get one with your basic mechanics SAE and Metric and make sure it comes with the extensions (much cheaper that way). As for the rest might want to try Harbor Freight. Most of their stuff is crap but if you're doing only limited wrenching you'll have the tools for the job and when they break then you can replace them with something better. Here's a good example of their pricing verses Sears.

1/2 inch torque wrench.

Sears $100
Harbor Freight- $20, actually on sale now for $12. It even comes in a plastic box! Which one is better? Probably the Sears one but then again much of the Craftsman stuff is simply made and China and badged Craftsman anyways. Point being. $12 for a "very close" torque is much better than no torque at all. Harbor Freight also has a lifetime warranty where you take it in to the store and they give you a new one.

Don't forget about the all important breaker bars

[Noir]

Check out Northern Tools. They have sales all the time and you can get up to 40% off on many of their air tools.

If you don't mind used, check out pawn shops.

Walmart sometimes has great clearance items that rock. 11 piece or was it 9 piece SAE or Metric, oh well, for like $9.00.

[Noir]

Originally posted by benebob

Sears $100
Harbor Freight- $20, actually on sale now for $12. It even comes in a plastic box! Which one is better? Probably the Sears one but then again much of the Craftsman stuff is simply made and China and badged Craftsman anyways. Point being. $12 for a "very close" torque is much better than no torque at all. Harbor Freight also has a lifetime warranty where you take it in to the store and they give you a new one.

Don't forget about the all important breaker bars

Whoa. $12? Where is Harbor Freight benebob? I'd get one for that price.

[benebob]

www.harborfreight.com

[UberRoo]

Harbor Freight is an excellent tool source. They sell lots of junk, but not everything is bad. I rather like their 'high-end' combination wrenches, but their low-end versions are like typical Chinese tools. Just compare, and remember that their retail outlets will always match any price from their online stores or flyers.

Personally, I use Pittsburgh (Harbor Freight) combination wrenches, Stanley sockets and rachets, and Snap-On screwdrivers with Craftsman handles.

The Craftsman screwdrivers are junk, but I prefer their handles. I buy the whole driver from Sears, and just the blade from Snap-On. The blades start at $10 and go up to $30. I yank out the Craftsman blade, and replace it with the Snap-On blade. Both the Craftsman and Snap-On screwdrivers come with lifetime warranties, but in my opinion, the Craftsman screwdrivers are broken right out of the box. They used to be better, but they don't fit right when new, and they get worse really fast. Properly fitted blades make a world of difference. Get a #1.5, #2, and #3 Phillips, and also a 3/16", 1/4", and 3/8" flat blade. Replace them every time they're anything but sharp.

The Stanley socket sets are cheap from WalMart and pretty darn good. If I break or lose anything, I just buy the individual Craftsman part from Sears to replace it. I also can think of no good reason to own a 12-point socket set other than the fact that 6-point sets aren't readily available. I've never wished I had a 12-point, but I've often wished I had a 6-point. For starters, I'd go with a deep-well socket set, and add a shallow set if you've got money left over. I'd advise against any sets that skip sizes, and get both metric and standard sets. Those bastard sets with 7.3mm and 31/64th" sockets often lead to problems. (Though having a cheap set kicking around can be nice when you need to hammer on an oversized Chinese socket onto a stripped head that's one size too big. )

The Pittsburgh combination wrenches are more than adequate, but the Stanley ones are also good and not very much more. I think the Craftsman ones are too expensive, but they are pretty nice. I rather dislike the Snap-On combination wrenches, and they're waaaaay too expensive. On combination wrenches, definitely go with a 12-point box. Having 6-point boxes around can come in very handy sometimes, but they're a royal pain in the neck to use. Gear-Wrenches are nice, but spendy. I'd hold off on those unless you really want them. The Snap-On truck is the only place I know where you can get a complete set, and they're actually not any cheaper at any retail store.

Air tools are nice, but they usually only make things go faster. Unless you plan on spending a LOT of time turning wrenches, they won't save you much time. Generally, they're too much money unless you make this your profession. Just having a small amount of compressed air available is nice though.

LandShark's list is good. I especially recommend the magnetic pickup and long handled needle nose pliers. Two pliers (one straight, and one with a curved nose) and the magnet tool can be had for less than $10 from Harbor Freight. I would also suggest a genuine ViseGrip, probably in a fairly large size. If you plan to do any automotive wiring, get a Klein-Tool.

One thing I think we can all agree on is that cheap tools are almost never worth it. They're a HUGE false economy. They will waste your time, they will break your stuff, and then they will break themselves. Even a cheap hammer and pry bar will bite you in the end. The hammer works fine until the 101st blow when the wedge in the wooden handle flies out and sends the head flying towards your windshield. A cheap pry bar will not be made of hardened steel. It will bend or the tips will become rounded and someday it will slip. Your knuckles will probably bear the brunt of this, but it may be worse. You will kick yourself for saving two dollars when you slip and gouge a hole in your radiator. Go ahead, ask me how I know these things.

Lastly, buy some decent ear and eye protection and shop gloves. Tools are one of the best investments you can ever make, but personal protection is even better. I used to have cheap gear, and I hated using it because it was uncomfortable and cumbersome. After buying good ear and eye protection, I just put it on when I go into the shop, and I can go about my business without even noticing that I'm wearing it. The freedom and safety they provide actually makes the job more pleasant. (Like reading a book without noise in the background.)

The best part about buying tools, is that you can buy them one at a time. Congratulations on choosing to make a good investment.

Cheers.

[Beav]

Whatever you do DON"T buy a $12 torque wrench! If what you're doing is important enough to use a torque wrench, it's important to use a real torque wrench. Look around, you can find beam type torque wrenches for around $20-$30, and the best thing about them is they never lose calibration.

if you can't get access to snap-on get craftsman. Aside from extremely great quality nothing beats a lifetime warranty.

[SVXRide]

Craftsman!
6 pt sockets!
Hardened tip screwdrivers
+ what Beav said

-Bill (constantly looking for a new job that requires tools I don't already own ...)

[drivemusicnow]

Have any of you used, or have knowledge of "powerforce" airtools.. they're made by Ingersoll Rand, as a very cheap "substitute" any feedback as to quality? they are cheap, but not bottom of the bucket cheap... i figure if they're made by a company with a good rep.. and it actually has "Ingersoll-Rand" name (albeit small) on the tool.. they can't be all that bad

[UberRoo]

Oh! I almost forgot. Get a boatload of socket extensions in every size available, wobble joints, U-joints, flex joints, size adapters, and also breaker bars. I would also recommend a 1/4" nutdriver/screwdriver-style handle tool thingy. You know... That wrench thing tool. It's a screwdriver with a 1/4" socket shaft instead of a blade. Great tool.

Those cheap Harbor Freight hand tools also come with a lifetime warranty. Beav is right about torque wrenches. The beam-type versions are very accurate and inexpensive. Torque specifications are inherently very imprecise. (Do you think torquing a rusty bolt down to 10ft/lbs puts the same amount of tension on a fastener as torquing a well lubricated nut to only 9ft/labs? Not even close. About half as much. Think lead-nickel grease provides the same lubrication as motor oil? Think again.) I don't believe that getting an accurate torque is especially important - just as long as you're in the ballpark. I think getting an equal torque on neighboring fasteners however, is fairly important, and any cheap torque wrench will do that.

As far as air tools go, I'm not particularly knowledgeable. They seem to last nearly forever, but I find them to be a pain to use. You MUST have an air supply nearby, and unless it's a considerably large compressor, the air source will probably be inadequate. I find most air tools don't work well unless they're fed a minimum of 100lbs, and usually work best at about 125. Sure, those $99 Home Depot units will do that, but after ten seconds of use, the pressure drops below 100lbs, and in less than a minute you have only 50psi ....... and it never catches up. Forget a 110 volt compressor. Maybe 220 for small applications. Think happy thoughts. Think 440. But do ya wanna spend that sort of money? And of course they never put out as much as the packaging claims. Ten horse on 110? I don't think so. The root problem is that air is highly inefficient. A thirty amp air compressor will only give you about as much power from an air tool as a two amp electric tool. ...or less.

Electric tools aren't quite as small, but they're just as powerful, much cheaper, and you don't need to have a stupid air compressor around! With electric, you don't need air lines, just and extension cord. I have an Ingersoll Rand impact wrench. At 100psi it's almost useless. At 125, it's almost as good as my $20 Chicago Electric (Harbor Freight) impact wrench. My air compressor is in my basement. My lug nuts are on my car which is in my garage 200 feet away and there are electrical outlets in my garage. Which tool would I rather use?

I have a few pneumatic die-grinders. Cheap-o-brand junk. They work well. I have one Ingersoll Rand die grinder. It's pretty nice, but not worth four-and-a-half times as much.

Sometimes you can get away with cheap tools. I try to whenever I can, but I never risk it. I give 'em a good inspection before I buy 'em. It's usually not hard to tell at a glance if something is junk or not.

If you've got wood for air tools, I would bet that anything with an I-R logo is probably okay. I've found the air tools with no label at all seem to be pretty good - especially at 1/4 the price.

[lee]

if you can get away from work (or whatever) Friday (tomorrow) Sears is selling many of their hand tools (socket sets, etc) for 50% off 6AM til 11AM.